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Offline Sue C

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jewish glass
« on: March 21, 2007, 01:05:20 PM »
Came across this, www.hebrewhistory.info click factpapers, fasinating reading, five pages on Jewish glass


Offline Leni

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Re: jewish glass
« Reply #1 on: March 21, 2007, 02:07:23 PM »
Fascinating reading indeed!  Thank you very much for that  :clap:
Leni


Offline Sue C

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Re: jewish glass
« Reply #2 on: March 21, 2007, 05:06:50 PM »
What do you make of chapter 3? whoever wrote it, are they telling us that from the begining all glass makers were Jewish?


Offline Leni

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Re: jewish glass
« Reply #3 on: March 21, 2007, 05:25:54 PM »
What do you make of chapter 3? whoever wrote it, are they telling us that from the begining all glass makers were Jewish?
Which bit in particular?  I took most of the examples in it as a comparison of the peripatetic nature of glass makers and the 'wandering Jews'. 
Leni


Offline Sue C

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Re: jewish glass
« Reply #4 on: March 21, 2007, 06:11:59 PM »
Hi Leni, VITREUM PLUMBUM, JUDAEUM SLICET,
"Not only lead glass but all glass were then attested by two roman emperors as being made by the jews" dont get me wrong i;m not disputing it, i dont have the education or knowledge to do that, but i have never heard this stated before, and i wondered if anyone else had, whenever i think of glass i think of the Italian's, not the Jew's, it's all very new to me and very interesting.
p.s should this be in the cafe?


Offline David E

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Re: jewish glass
« Reply #5 on: March 21, 2007, 06:21:16 PM »
It is suggested that the history of glassmaking goes back to about 4000BC and is linked to the Syrians. The following link is worth reading:

http://www.glassonline.com/infoserv/history.html
David
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Offline Frank

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Re: jewish glass
« Reply #6 on: March 21, 2007, 07:06:21 PM »
Just had the quickest look through, not too impressive, seems to be using different pages as a references to itself ??? Which is a good way of proving anything you want. The writing style is very mixed modern and archaic so possibly this has just been ripped out of various texts to complete a particular agenda.

Going by the other stuff they also invented cars, carpets and the telephone. So perhaps HHF really stands for Hype History Funnytales ;)
Frank A.
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Sklounion

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Re: jewish glass
« Reply #7 on: March 21, 2007, 10:37:29 PM »
Dexter, an interesting find.

I have this criticism.
In what appears to be a researched paper, it seems a little odd that the comments from Dr Plot, Page 3, are not referenced.
From which contemporary text/source was Plot's comment taken, which effectively leaves Ravenscroft as exploiter, not innovator?
This is less fact-sheet, more an intellectual interpretation, and thus is clearly open to further academic examination.
Being acutely aware that other comment might be (wrongly) assumed to display anti-semitic tendencies, I will refrain from voicing more doubts and queries.
Regards,
Marcus


Offline KevinH

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Re: jewish glass
« Reply #8 on: March 22, 2007, 03:34:24 AM »
I have seen the "hebrewhistory" site before and I found the sections on glassmaking very interesting. But I was not convinced by several of the "conclusions" drawn, primarily because I could not see actual, referenced evidence for some of the statements made.

I agree with Marcus's query about Dr Plot and the inferences about Ravenscroft. If there was a reference via which the comments could be validated, I would be happier to maintain an open mind about what has been suggested.

But from what I have read elsewhere Ravenscroft very likely learned about the inclusion of oxide of lead in glass batch from a translation by a Dr Merret of an Italian work by Antonio Neri. The "hebrewhistory" articles do not seem to mention Dr Merret, or the work by Neri. Neverthless it is agreed in various literature that Ravenscroft was not the first person to use lead in glass.

But what Ravenscroft did was to use a high proportion of lead in order to produce a glass that met the requirements of the time as determined by The Glass Sellers Company (which has, at least, been mentioned in the website articles). It was this high-lead batch that was referred to as "glass of lead" or "lead glass". And it seems that at about the same time, the use of higher lead content was also developed in Bohemia, but it was the new English glass that made the most impact.

If the earlier glass made by Jews was a lead glass, in the sense of it having a high lead content, then why did this not become the standard batch used by such as the Venetians? Why make items of soda glass with its great fragility, if the stronger "lead glass" formula had been known?

Going back to the quote about, "Not only lead glass but all glass were then attested by two roman emperors as being made by the jews", my interpretation of that was that Jews were definitely known to have been working as glassmakers at the time. I did not read it as meaning that all glassmakers of the time were Jews. And that point has not been proven to my satisfaction in any of the "hebrewhistory" articles - and particularly for the millenia preceding the Roman empire.

But I really ought to read it all again.
KevinH


Offline Frank

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Re: jewish glass
« Reply #9 on: March 22, 2007, 09:45:36 AM »
Being acutely aware that other comment might be (wrongly) assumed to display anti-semitic tendencies, I will refrain from voicing more doubts and queries.

These days one is left with the feeling that any discussion of Jewish matters by non-Jewish people, particularly Europeans, is considered anti-semitic. So any academic discussion of a newly proposed history is best not made. Let us just accept it and rewrite history.  >:D
Frank A.
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