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Author Topic: jewish glass  (Read 1693 times)

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Offline Frank

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Re: jewish glass
« Reply #10 on: March 22, 2007, 09:46:32 AM »
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Let us just accept it and rewrite history.

In which case this becomes a cafe topic!
Frank A.
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Offline Leni

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Re: jewish glass
« Reply #11 on: March 22, 2007, 10:43:52 AM »
Being acutely aware that other comment might be (wrongly) assumed to display anti-semitic tendencies, I will refrain from voicing more doubts and queries.

These days one is left with the feeling that any discussion of Jewish matters by non-Jewish people, particularly Europeans, is considered anti-semitic. So any academic discussion of a newly proposed history is best not made. Let us just accept it and rewrite history.  >:D
Frank, what makes you think it's only the 'non-Jewish' people who are being accused of anti-semitism? ;)  But I mustn't go there >:D

IMHO this is not yet a cafe topic, as it is indeed about glass!  It may of necessity wander into other areas, but in the first instance it was the hebrewhistory writings about Jewish (or 'semitic' - and let's not forget that not all semites are / were Jews >:D) glass makers which was raised! 

My personal objection is to the (both Jewish and non-Jewish) tendency to make statements about "The Jews" as a conglomerate mass.  It seems to me that some of the people mentioned in the article about making glass also happened to be Jewish. 

It's only if we stray into discussion of the writer's motives that we are in danger of moving into cafe talk. But that's just my take on it  ;)   

Leni


Offline josordoni

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Re: jewish glass
« Reply #12 on: March 22, 2007, 11:06:24 AM »
Hi Leni, VITREUM PLUMBUM, JUDAEUM SLICET,
"Not only lead glass but all glass were then attested by two roman emperors as being made by the jews" dont get me wrong i;m not disputing it, i dont have the education or knowledge to do that, but i have never heard this stated before, and i wondered if anyone else had, whenever i think of glass i think of the Italian's, not the Jew's, it's all very new to me and very interesting.
p.s should this be in the cafe?

Sue, surely if it was "Roman emperors attesting to glass making by the jews" (my emphasis) this would imply that the Jewish glassmakers were also Italian by nationality, or at the very least somewhere Mediterranean?  To be a Jew is a genetic/religious attribute rather than a nationality. 

Edited now I've thought about it again....

Of course, Palestine is Mediterranean.... and part of the Roman empire as well, so the first part of the above comment may not apply.  However the last sentence does.



Offline Frank

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Re: jewish glass
« Reply #13 on: March 22, 2007, 11:12:07 AM »
Distorting history is a popular means of control and its certainly not unique to any one group, religious or political. I get very irritated by the need to take ownership of human achievement and to allocate it to a particular philosophy. History is about the events of the past - end of story.
Frank A.
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Connie

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Re: jewish glass
« Reply #14 on: March 22, 2007, 11:15:13 AM »
From the first lines of the first fact paper
Quote
The art of glassmaking was born in Akkadia, the Biblical Shinar, the home of the tribe of Terach, father of Abraham, about 2400 B.C.E. It was a Semitic, and then a Jewish art for the next three millennia.1
Quote

A definition of Semitic which is not equal to Jew -

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Semitic
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
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In linguistics and ethnology, Semitic (from the Biblical "Shem", Hebrew: שם, translated as "name", Arabic: ساميّ) was first used to refer to a language family of largely Middle Eastern origin, now called the Semitic languages. This family includes the ancient and modern forms of Amharic, Arabic, Aramaic, Akkadian, Ge'ez, Hebrew, Maltese, Tigre and Tigrinya among others.

As language studies are interwoven with cultural studies, the term also came to describe the extended cultures and ethnicities, as well as the history of these varied peoples as associated by close geographic and linguistic distribution. The late 19th century term "anti-Semitism" came to be used in reference specifically to anti-Jewish sentiment, further complicating the understood meaning and boundaries of the term.


Connie

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Re: jewish glass
« Reply #15 on: March 22, 2007, 11:15:56 AM »

From the first lines of the first fact paper
Quote
The art of glassmaking was born in Akkadia, the Biblical Shinar, the home of the tribe of Terach, father of Abraham, about 2400 B.C.E. It was a Semitic, and then a Jewish art for the next three millennia.1

A definition of Semitic which is not equal to Jew -

Quote
Semitic
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Jump to: navigation, search

In linguistics and ethnology, Semitic (from the Biblical "Shem", Hebrew: שם, translated as "name", Arabic: ساميّ) was first used to refer to a language family of largely Middle Eastern origin, now called the Semitic languages. This family includes the ancient and modern forms of Amharic, Arabic, Aramaic, Akkadian, Ge'ez, Hebrew, Maltese, Tigre and Tigrinya among others.

As language studies are interwoven with cultural studies, the term also came to describe the extended cultures and ethnicities, as well as the history of these varied peoples as associated by close geographic and linguistic distribution. The late 19th century term "anti-Semitism" came to be used in reference specifically to anti-Jewish sentiment, further complicating the understood meaning and boundaries of the term.


Sklounion

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Re: jewish glass
« Reply #16 on: March 22, 2007, 11:25:22 AM »
Also from Wikipedia:

"That the Phoenicians used glass as a glaze for pottery was known as early as 3000 BC. However, there is archaeological evidence to support the claim that the first glass was made in Mesopotamia. Glass beads, seals, and architectural decorations date from around 2500 BC. Glass was also discovered by Native Americans during the same time period."

So it would appear simultaneous discoveries of glass-making on two very distant continents, within a similar time-frame.

regards,

Marcus



Offline Frank

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Re: jewish glass
« Reply #17 on: March 22, 2007, 11:43:52 AM »
Is Phoenecian considered Semitic?

Is the referred website using the term semitic to only refer to jewish matters?

Confusing indeed, historical confusion is of course exploited by many... South American spacemen etc.
Frank A.
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Connie

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Re: jewish glass
« Reply #18 on: March 22, 2007, 11:48:24 AM »
Is Phoenecian considered Semitic?

Is the referred website using the term semitic to only refer to jewish matters?

Confusing indeed, historical confusion is of course exploited by many... South American spacemen etc.

Phoenicia I am not ancient geography expert but from this definition and those above, Phoenicia would be part of the area included in Semitic definition.


Offline Frank

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Re: jewish glass
« Reply #19 on: March 22, 2007, 12:11:59 PM »
And Malta comes into the geographic distribution... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Semitic_languages thus adding Mdina, Mtarfa and Gozo glass to a semitic classification. ;)
Frank A.
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