Author Topic: May be Whitefriars ?  (Read 2222 times)

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Offline Argonite

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May be Whitefriars ?
« on: March 25, 2007, 07:52:34 PM »
http://glassgallery.yobunny.org.uk/displayimage.php?pos=-5895

This is the link to a very pretty Ink Bottle I have which I am still trying to identify. I thought it might have been Walsh Walsh or Web but it seems more likely to be Whitefriars, possibly from around 1930-50. Any or all help will, as always, be very much appreciated:

Main bottle millefiori canes 4 concentric rings with large centre cane; white, blue, white, red.
Date canes 1,8,4,8 ring # 3. Stopper and bottle neck inscribed ‘61’ or ‘19’. Recessed base.
Stopper central cane plus 3 concentric rings, outer red, two rings white. Stopper shape copies body shape.
Height with stopper: 10 cm (4 inches), without stopper: 7 cm (2 ¾ inches).
Body diameter 6.3 cm (2 ½ inches) at widest point, base diameter 5.2 cm (2 ¼ inches)   

Respect  :D
Roger

Respect,
Roger


Offline vidrioguapo

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Re: May be Whitefriars ?
« Reply #1 on: March 25, 2007, 09:10:13 PM »
Have a look at Pat. 9754 in the Whitefriars catalogues - 1972 - 1980.  There's one similar to yours. I am not a weight expert so you will have to judge for yourself.  Emmi


Offline Lustrousstone

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Re: May be Whitefriars ?
« Reply #2 on: March 26, 2007, 06:44:12 AM »
Migfht be better on the paperweight board so they can look at the canes. Moderator...


Offline KevinH

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Re: May be Whitefriars ?
« Reply #3 on: March 26, 2007, 03:29:43 PM »
Not Whitefriars!

From the photo of the section showing the canes in the base, it appears that there are indeed canes for "1848" but with the "4" not showing. Is that correct? Is the "4" out of view or is it missing? Any chance of a photo of the date canes with the "4" showing?

Also a photo of the base would be useful.

Research has shown (but not to everyone's satiisfaction) that there are no recods of Whitefriars making weights or bottles in the 19th century. However, it is known that the Arculus and Walsh-Walsh companies (Walsh eventually became owner of the former Arculus works) made "copies" of "old" weights and bottles in, at least, the 1920s and 1930s and these had "1848" canes set in them. This was apprarently done to meet a desire at the time by collectors and dealers!

I have not yet checked the canes against other "old English" items so cannot confirm a likely attribution.
KevinH


Offline Argonite

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Re: May be Whitefriars ?
« Reply #4 on: March 26, 2007, 04:32:39 PM »
http://glassgallery.yobunny.org.uk/displayimage.php?pos=-5911

Kev - your info is most interesting - this was the track I was going down before I was advised that it was probably Whitefriars !

Anyway, the '4' is offset slightly from the 18 and 8 cane and the '8' in both canes looks like two spots, one above the other.

I have taken some more pictures and put them up (link above) - three shots, one of the date canes from the 'outside', one of the date canes peering down the neck (pos=-5909) and one of the base (pos=-5908). This last image also shows the wear to the base suggesting some sort of 'age' but it could have been done deliberately. The other thing which is 'bugging' me is the small size of the item - the majority of bottles I have researched start at about 5 inches and go up !
Respect, Roger  ;D
Respect,
Roger


Offline KevinH

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Re: May be Whitefriars ?
« Reply #5 on: March 26, 2007, 09:28:53 PM »
Yes. The "4" is consistent with others, and as is often the case, is set "upside down" or "back to front". The shape of the "4" is one of the key factors in recognising these pieces. The use of two canes together to make the "8" also ties in with known examples from Arculus / Walsh.

I have seen another small bottle of the same structure, complete with the same shape of foot, body, neck and stopper. I have heard of others, and some apparently are even smaller!
KevinH


Offline KevinH

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Re: May be Whitefriars ?
« Reply #6 on: March 26, 2007, 09:43:50 PM »
And not only that, but ...

In addition to info in the paperweight literature, British Glass 1800-1914, by Charles Hajdamach, 1991 [ISBN 1 85149 141 4] shows, on page 396, a group of millefiori items. On the left of the group is:
Quote
Small scent bottle with millefiori canes including four making up the date 1848 which matches the design known to have been used at the Walsh Wlash factory in Brimingham in the 1920s; height 4 in (10 cm), Michael Parkington Collection.

That bottle shows all the same features as the one shown here and the other I have seen.

Page 408 of the same book shows an image of a page from a Hill Ouston catalogue of 1934. This has a weight and ink bottle both with false 1848 canes formed in a similar way to the Walsh ones. The bottle is said to match one from early 20th century records and presumed to be from Richardsons.
KevinH


Offline Argonite

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Re: May be Whitefriars ?
« Reply #7 on: March 26, 2007, 10:45:49 PM »
 ;D Who's the man !
Kev - I have thought all along this was Walsh Walsh and you have confirmed it for me......
and.....dang blast it.....I have the BRITISH GLASS 1800-1914 but had not found the relationship  >:(
Anyway, can only say a very big THANK YOU and leave it at that !
Walsh Walsh it is and that's how I shall catalogue it...
Much Respect,
Roger
 :D
Respect,
Roger


Offline tropdevin

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Re: May be Whitefriars ?
« Reply #8 on: March 28, 2007, 12:45:53 PM »
I think it is very difficult - maybe impossible - to distinguish Walsh Walsh and Arculus - especially after the point Walsh Walsh bought the Arculus factory.  Arculus made the 'chequer' weights, I believe, but once you get to concentrics, glasses, bottles, jugs.... who knows? 

I will be touching on this, amongst many other things, in my talk at the PCA Convention next month!

Alan

Alan
The comments in this posting reflect the opinion of the author, Alan Thornton, and not that of the owners, administrators or moderators of this board. Comments are copyright Alan Thornton. Please feel free to contact me direct if you do not agree with my comments and do not wish to make your concerns known by posting in this thread.
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Offline Frank

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Re: May be Whitefriars ?
« Reply #9 on: March 28, 2007, 03:43:12 PM »
Richardson not Walsh!!
Frank A.
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