Author Topic: New Acquisitions!  (Read 8205 times)

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Offline RAY

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« Reply #30 on: April 26, 2005, 10:07:18 AM »
yep just like the one on kevs cpc site
cheers Ray


Offline Leni

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« Reply #31 on: April 26, 2005, 12:38:51 PM »
Quote from: "RAY"
yep just like the one on kevs cpc site

Ooooh, you cheat!   :twisted:  :lol:

Leni
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Offline KevinH

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« Reply #32 on: April 26, 2005, 10:39:12 PM »
Well done on the Walsh candlestick, Ray  :)  Was that by memory or by searching the site for clues?

Anyone who may have guessed Whitefriars was more or less on the right lines, at least according to earlier ideas  - up until quite recently, most dealers and collectors would have said this sort of concentric weight was Whitefriars 19th century. And there are still some folk who don't go along with the latest research information.

When I bought it, I did so because it looked unusual, but very well made. I had no idea about the actual attribution or date, though. I simply believed the auction catalogue listing which stated "... 19th century Whitefriars paperweight with applied 18th century taperstick ..."  :!:  I fairly quickly changed my mind about the 18th C taperstick idea but for some time still thought it might be Whitefriars.
KevinH


Offline Leni

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« Reply #33 on: April 27, 2005, 08:39:47 AM »
Quote from: "KevH"
Anyone who may have guessed Whitefriars was more or less on the right lines

I guessed Whitefriars, using my Jargstorf book, but then when Kevin said 'the other one begining with W' I knew he had to mean Walsh, because Jargstorf refers to Walsh on the pages about Whitefriars!   :D

Then he said it was like the one on the PCC site, and I went looking.  It is the same one, isn't it?   :wink:  

Did you guess first Ray, or did you look?  :twisted:  Come on, own up!     :wink:  :lol:

Leni
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Offline Leni

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« Reply #34 on: April 27, 2005, 12:16:01 PM »
Quote from: "KevH"
we need good close-ups of the "rose" canes you have mentioned. They could be the biggest clue of all and are one of the most widely researched cane types in recent years.
Going back to what Kevin said all that time ago :roll:  :lol: ....

I haven't managed to get better pictures, but I have just acquired a new magnifier - 20x magnification!  :shock:  boy, are my eyes watering! - so I will attempt to describe what I have seen.  

I concentrated on the rose canes, because of Kevin's comments above.  They are incredibly tiny in detail - oh, and I'm almost certain now that they are *NOT* Clichy!   :roll:

So that people remember what I'm talking about, I'll post a copy of the picture here again.  Not too large this time   :oops:  http://tinypic.com/4qsiol

The pink rose cane in the middle of the complex cane at the very centre of the weight is made up of a deep pink core and three concentric circle of white cased in pink, all encircled by no less than nine deep blue six point stars in white encased in pink!  It is impossible to see them with the naked eye!  They do appear to have sharp points though, Ray.

These star canes are then encircled by the rose petal elements, which consist of flattened white canes encased in pink.  There are five in the first ring and then in each succeeding ring - there are three or four rings in all, distortion making the number a little unclear in places - the spaces are filled by shifting the circle round a little and adding a couple of canes as needed.  Sorry, it's just too small to be more precise.   :roll:  

This whole rose is then encased in a circle of very pale clear yellow, also not visible with the naked eye!

The three white roses, which, alternating with concentric green and white rings, encircle the centre of the blue and white complex cane, are even smaller.  They are also more difficult to see being at the edge of the weight and affected by distortion caused by the re-polishing which Kevin spotted.  

They seem to consist of a central blue six point star set in white, encirled by five six point stars - too small to see the colour, could be either blue or green - which are either set in pink or in white encased in pink.  

The white 'petals' appear to be standard white canes flattened as in the pink rose, and encircle the core in the same pattern of five canes shifting round and in-filled in each ring as needed.  The whole rose is then encased in clear pink.  

And I think I need to go and lie down now!  My head aches and I feel more than a little dizzy!  :shock:  :roll:  

I do hope I haven't bored everyone senseless - well, everyone except us paperweight cane fanatics  :lol:  :roll:  :oops:  :wink:

Leni
Leni


Offline KevinH

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« Reply #35 on: April 28, 2005, 03:40:34 AM »
Leni - thanks for the excellent description of the Rose canes. I will see what I can find that might tie in with these. Most of the detailed images of Rose canes is in PCA Bulletin articles, rather than the usual books. Fortunately (for me, that is) I managed to secure a set of PCA Bulletins going back to the 60s so I can spend some time browsing.

Just one other question, though ... if you can see the detail well enough. When you say that the final outer parts are a "yellow circle" or "encased in clear pink", do you mean it is like a tube, or like a thin colour overlay (flashing). Or is it actually a series of separate coloured bits - as with the spaced outer green bits of the Clichy (etc.) roses?

And while I am here, I'll now say that I have not found any examples in the books of exactly the pattern as in this weight - with an alternating set of 3 diametrically opposed canes. But in the PCC 1999 Exhib photos there is this one which is broadly similar and also has multi-row complex canes including variations of 6-point stars. (It has large roses, one which appears to have a full outer green coating, but the others show that it is actually separate elements of green - which is what I was trying to describe above in my question):
http://www.kevh.clara.net/exhib99/Antique/Bohemian/BOH013.htm
And this one gets close to the "diametrically opposed" pattern but doesn't quite make it:
http://www.kevh.clara.net/exhib99/Antique/Bohemian/BOH014.htm
And then there's this one, which is quite untidy, but does use the same pattern:
http://www.kevh.clara.net/exhib99/Antique/Bohemian/BOH015.htm

All of those three Exhib weights were included in the Bohemian section and as yet, I am not aware of them being reclassified as anything else (some others could be St Mandé, which as Leni pointed out earlier, is one of the less well known French makers - and which I will also say is still generating new evidence for discussions).

Anyway, it is those Exhib weights, along with the "interesting" features of lower quality setting but with some very complex canes, that make me think Leni's weight fits into the same group. So I tend to agree with Leni's original thoughts on it being Bohemian.

But I still want to see if we can find anything more on those Rose canes. They might turn out to be yet more examples of previously unrecognised variations, which is always fascinating for those who thrive on such minute details  :D
KevinH


Offline Leni

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« Reply #36 on: April 28, 2005, 07:17:25 AM »
Quote from: "KevH"
Just one other question, though ... if you can see the detail well enough. When you say that the final outer parts are a "yellow circle" or "encased in clear pink", do you mean it is like a tube, or like a thin colour overlay (flashing). Or is it actually a series of separate coloured bits - as with the spaced outer green bits of the Clichy (etc.) roses?

The yellow and the pink, where I have described it as 'encasing', is actually a thin clear layer which you correctly describe as 'flashing'.  Of course I know what flashing is and should have used it in this context, but I'm still not quite up with the correct expressions.  Sorry  :oops:  :roll:
Quote

http://www.kevh.clara.net/exhib99/Antique/Bohemian/BOH013.htm

I had looked at this one, and it was one of the reasons I thought 'Bohemian' from the start.  There are some similarities - particularly the green stars.  Also, the shade of green - it's not the same as that which I have seen in clichy weights, being rather more 'bluey-green' than what I think of as 'Clichy green'.  I am not sure if this is one of the criteria used to categorise weights,, so perhaps I am on the wrong track here, but I do tend to look at the colour when trying to identify canes   :?  

Quote
Anyway, it is those Exhib weights, along with the "interesting" features of lower quality setting but with some very complex canes, that make me think Leni's weight fits into the same group. So I tend to agree with Leni's original thoughts on it being Bohemian.

Yay!   :D  Kevin agrees with me!   :D  I feel quite proud!   :roll:  :oops:
Quote
But I still want to see if we can find anything more on those Rose canes. They might turn out to be yet more examples of previously unrecognised variations, which is always fascinating for those who thrive on such minute details  :D

Many thanks for your continued interest Kevin  :D   Thank goodness I'm not alone!  I was beginning to think I was in danger of becoming a paperweight 'nerd'!  :oops:  :lol:  :wink:

Leni
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Offline RAY

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« Reply #37 on: April 28, 2005, 01:13:42 PM »
Quote from: "KevH"
Well done on the Walsh candlestick, Ray  :)  Was that by memory or by searching the site for clues?


from memory Kev,  looking at your site to much :D

my poor old mum had her antique shop broken into this morning, a pro job and got away with quite a bit of stuff, but what a suprise the cctv cameras in the town were on the blink :roll:

anyway so Bohemian the weight is then :D

Kev when you were up here the 1st time you said , you made a little game about naming the canes at one of your meetings, should do that on here and see who gets top marks :D  and you as the judge
cheers Ray


Offline Leni

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« Reply #38 on: April 28, 2005, 04:46:16 PM »
Quote from: "RAY"
Quote from: "KevH"
Well done on the Walsh candlestick, Ray  :)  Was that by memory or by searching the site for clues?

from memory Kev,  looking at your site to much :D

I've been looking at the site a lot too, but I was concentrating on the old French and Bohemian weights  :lol:  I must broaden my horizons!   :roll:
Quote
my poor old mum had her antique shop broken into this morning, a pro job and got away with quite a bit of stuff, but what a suprise the cctv cameras in the town were on the blink :roll:

Gosh!  Sorry to hear that, Ray  :(  Do give our sympathy to your mum!  Is there anything we should be particularly looking out for, in case it appears on ebay?  :evil:
Quote
Kev when you were up here the 1st time you said , you made a little game about naming the canes at one of your meetings, should do that on here and see who gets top marks :D  and you as the judge

Oooh yes, please!   :D  But wait 'til my new books arrive!  :lol:   :wink:

Leni
Leni


Offline RAY

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« Reply #39 on: April 28, 2005, 08:58:08 PM »
Leni it was mostly gold and silver, alot was one off egyptian piece's of gold, all in all about 20-25k worth was snatched, they had it all worked out they had ripped all the wires out from a telephone exchange up the road so the alarm wouldnt go off


Leni send me an email
cheers Ray

 

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