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Author Topic: Sold to me as Loetz, can anyone confirm they think it is? ID = Kralik (attrib.)  (Read 4319 times)

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Offline josordoni

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This was sold as Loetz, but I am unsure...I can't find anything similar in the Loetz web galleries.

Are the little indents usual in Loetz, or indicative of someone else?

The bowl is 3.25 ins 80 mm tall, also 3.25 ins 80 mm across the inside of the rim.  Oyster lustre to inside and outside of vase, green with slightly gold iridescence to the trails.

Thanks for any help,

http://glassgallery.yobunny.org.uk/displayimage.php?pos=-6953
http://glassgallery.yobunny.org.uk/displayimage.php?pos=-6952
http://glassgallery.yobunny.org.uk/displayimage.php?pos=-6951

Thank you very much!

Lynne
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Offline Mosquito

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Re: Sold to me as Loetz, can anyone confirm they think it is?
« Reply #1 on: May 19, 2007, 03:42:46 PM »
No. 792, p455 in Cappa (1998) Le Genie Verrier de L'Europe shows a very similar iridescent piece with green trails and a crimped rim attributed to Richardson, 1890-1900.



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Offline heartofglass

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Re: Sold to me as Loetz, can anyone confirm they think it is?
« Reply #2 on: May 19, 2007, 03:44:04 PM »
Looks more like Pallme-Konig to me.......not that there's anything wrong with that! ;)
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Offline josordoni

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Re: Sold to me as Loetz, can anyone confirm they think it is?
« Reply #3 on: May 19, 2007, 03:52:26 PM »
No. 792, p455 in Cappa (1998) Le Genie Verrier de L'Europe shows a very similar iridescent piece with green trails and a crimped rim attributed to Richardson, 1890-1900.




Thanks Mozzie,

Yes, I was wondering about an English maker, the crimped rim just doesn't seem right for Loetz or P-K for that matter either - I know what you mean Marinka, the trails seem very P-K, but that rim??

Thank you very much!

Lynne
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Offline Joschua

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Re: Sold to me as Loetz, can anyone confirm they think it is?
« Reply #4 on: May 20, 2007, 06:11:16 PM »
Without having my books at hand , I would suspect that this is not Loetz, could be Bohemian and an older glass though. Literature should clarify, the Passau catalogues might give a clue. Rindskopf, Elisabeth, Kralik...Those could be possibilities...

Joschua


PS: I dont know about British glass, so that might also be worth further investigation.

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Offline pwayne

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Re: Sold to me as Loetz, can anyone confirm they think it is?
« Reply #5 on: May 24, 2007, 09:14:17 PM »
Hi all, this is my very first post as a new member and thought I would add my three pennies worth to this debate. I had always thought these as Kralik and have seen them with amethyst trails as well as the green. About a year ago I had one in a truncated egg form with the same oyster lustre but with amethyst trails done in exactly the same style as Lynne’s vase, it was mounted in a bronze patinated brass Art Nouveau stand made by William Tonks & Sons of Birmingham. I checked the registration number out with the V & A and if my memory serves me well the design was registered in 1902. I have passed it on now but it begs the question would a brass founders from Birmingham be making a fitted stand for glass from Bohemia or a more local maker such as Richardson in Stourbridge. One to ponder on, I lost all my pics in a major computer crash a while ago but I might have it still on my computer at work, if I have I shall post a pic next week. Cheers Pwayne.

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Offline josordoni

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Re: Sold to me as Loetz, can anyone confirm they think it is?
« Reply #6 on: May 24, 2007, 09:44:08 PM »
Interesting Pwayne, be good to see your pix if you can find them
Thank you very much!

Lynne
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Offline KevinH

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Re: Sold to me as Loetz, can anyone confirm they think it is?
« Reply #7 on: May 25, 2007, 12:29:18 AM »
Can't say what it is, can't say what it's not, but here's a bit of a story ...

I have three vases in opal iridescent which, by comparison of how they are made, appear to be from the same maker, whoever it may be. As seen in the picture, they have no trailing, but ...

The pair of thinner ones look to be identical to one shown in Manley's Decorative Victorian Glass, page 54, Item 16. Manley said of this, "A cased vase, iridescent crystal over opal. Made at Richardson's, the first of a series ..." He also showed four other vases (items 17 thru 20) and said that these followed on in that series. Some had a moulded allover "indented pattern" and one had trailed drops. Item 18 in the book shows green trailing in the same style as Lynne's vase.

The trailing in both Lynne's and the Manley item is mostly horizontal, with the upper and lower trails seeming to be perfect "rims" to the decoration. This makes me think it is not the work of Palme-Konig, which, in the (admittedly few) examples I have seen, seems to always show much more movement in the trails and often has almost vertical crossovers as well.

Manley made another comment, which these days may be regarded as "mistaken". He said, for Item 19 with the drops over "indented pattern" body, "A somewhat similar item was made on the Continent but ... has no punty mark, no drops, is not crystal cased and is only half the weight".

At this point, here's an image of the base of my larger vase, and here's one of the thinner one. The colours are false, but this is deliberate to highlight the finish. Note the smooth pontil area, with partial evidence of a "snap-off recess" in the larger vase. These bases look quite similar to that on Lynne's vase. If Manley was right about the base finishes, then mine and Lynne's would seem to be "not Continental".

Turning now to the Truitts' Collectible Bohemian Glass 1880-1940, page 79, a selection of Kralik vases is shown, with two certainly having the allover "indented pattern" and one, with a plain surface, having drops in a style reasonably similar to that shown by Manley. What is clear, though, is that none have the cased iridescent form which Manley said was Richardson's.

Ok, does Gulliver's Victorian Decorative Glass - British Designs, 1850-1914 help out? Fascinating stuff ... I can find no examples in this book that show anything like Lynne's, mine, or the Manley items. Does this mean that Gulliver believed these type of wares were simply not British, or does it mean that he had not seen any like it???

Is there anybody out there who can confidently say that Manley was wrong and that these are all "Continental", or is there anyone who can confirm that they are British, and perhaps Richardson's, as Manley suggested?
KevinH

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Offline Glen

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Re: Sold to me as Loetz, can anyone confirm they think it is?
« Reply #8 on: May 25, 2007, 08:02:29 AM »
Elsewhere on the GMB, Pip has used the phrase "diddley-squat" - and I'd like to borrow it here, as I know diddley-squat about iridised art glass. However, may I throw the name Poschinger into this thread (and bear in mind that I know diddley-squat)? I have seen items that look familiar to some of those shown in this thread, which have been attributed to the Bavarian maker, Poschinger.

Apologies if I am completely off track.
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Offline KevinH

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Re: Sold to me as Loetz, can anyone confirm they think it is?
« Reply #9 on: May 25, 2007, 11:47:38 AM »
Thanks Glen, that's a maker I had not considered.

In the Great Glass site photo gallery for "Austro-Bohemian & German (others)", there is a section for Poschinger where item 7209 is an iridescent & trailed vase. And googling produces a few other types, some very nice indeed, but none I have seen would appear to be "iridised clear over opal".

It would be interesting to see if anyone can show images of any possibilities.

[As a point of clarification to my previous comments, to see what I mean by "allover indented", see the link for the Great Glass page above and check the Kralik section, items such as 6190, 6904 & 6305 - I couldn't think of a proper term to describe the effect!]
KevinH

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