Author Topic: Rare Stained rim, Fostoria American ? INDIANA  (Read 2007 times)

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itsalison2

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Rare Stained rim, Fostoria American ? INDIANA
« on: May 18, 2005, 08:24:47 PM »
Hello,
  I recently came across some fostoria american tumblers that have a pale yellow or very pale amber stain on the rim. They are beautiful ! I am wondering if anyone knows who made them and how common they are and what to call them when looking for more matching ones - thanks !


Offline butchiedog

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Rare Stained rim, Fostoria American ? INDIANA
« Reply #1 on: May 19, 2005, 02:51:26 PM »
Hi itsalison2,

The first thing you need to do is verify that what you have is actually Fostoria glass, in their "American" pattern. Do you have any pictures you could post here on the board?

There are 6 glass makers that I am aware of, who made items in that "tumbling block" pattern, which was originally an old quilting pattern.

The thee pattern names I know are as follows.

Fostoria Glass = "American"

Indiana Glass = "Whitehall"

Lancaster Colony, the owners of Indiana Glass have owned the old Fostoria "American" molds since the 1980s,. They once commissioned Dalzell Viking Glass do a limited reproduction of a few Fostoria "American" items, which are not the highest of quality when compared with the original. Indiana's "Whitehall" pattern was made in two part molds (2 seams), specifically made for that line and no original Fostoria molds were used, which are three part molds (3 seams).

Jeanette Glass = "Cube" (This is a machine made Depression Glass pattern, which is often mistakenly called "Cubist" by some)

I do not know the patterns names used by the next three, but maybe others here do and will be so kind to fill us both in.

Davidson Glass of England

Jobling Glass of England

Crown Crystal of Australia

There may be more glass makers who made a similar pattern, who just aren't as well known as the rest yet. I just recently learned of Crown Crystal, so I wouldn't be too surprised if there were more.

I know for sure that both Fostoria and Indiana did color staining on their glass, so it will be interesting to see which one you have and then fill in the blanks as to whether it is actually rare or just not popular with collectors and sellers, which can sometimes make certain things just appear to be rare, because you don't see them in shops or on ebay for lack of interest in them.


Mike


itsalison2

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stained rim fostoria american glasses
« Reply #2 on: May 19, 2005, 07:17:58 PM »
Mike, I do have a photo but it is not uploaded to anyplace where I can place a link to it on the internet. What I can tell you additionally, is that the glasses have a pale topaz color rim , and the body of the glass is clear. There is a slight flare to the top of the glass - and this and the clarity and sparkle of the glass made me think it was fostoria. Also the topaz coloration on the rim - although it is a diluted topaz color and very pale ( thin flashed coating of topaz glass ? ) If you have made an email address available, I will resend this message to you along with a jpg you can download and have a look at.


Offline butchiedog

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Rare Stained rim, Fostoria American ? INDIANA
« Reply #3 on: May 19, 2005, 09:14:06 PM »
Hi again,

Based on your photo http://tinypic.com/59wri8 It appears that you have an Indiana "Whitehall" juice glass. You can make sure by looking at the base and counting the seams in the glass. 2 seams is Indiana's "Whitehall" This is often incorrectly or wishfully listed as Fostoria "American" in ebay auctions.

These are what the Fostoria "American" juice glasses looks like. http://tinypic.com/59wrk9 and they have 3 seams on the base, but you have to look close to see them, because they have been fire or acid polished smooth.

I believe your glass once had a red or ruby stained rim on it and the color was bleached out of it by being washed in a dishwasher. The color stain treatment on Indiana items is basically a transparent paint that may or may not be fired on and It is common for it to either fade or begin to flake off over time.

Indiana "Whitehall" items are a very little value compared to the other maker's items in this pattern type. One problem is;  they just made too much of it and the other problem is;  they continue to make items in this pattern on and off and there is really no difference between the old and new.

Mike


itsalison2

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amber rim fostoria american
« Reply #4 on: May 19, 2005, 11:56:14 PM »
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Mike, I thought about this too at first, but on close examination the color is even and appears flashed rather than stained. It almost looks like topaz glass was flashed over it, its the same color as the fostoria topaz candle sticks, only paler because its over clear glass and so thin - at least that was what I suspected at first.  I have seen ruby stained and flashed items that have gone thru a diswasher. The stained ruby gets bare spots and the flashed gets pink. Dishwashers also tend to etch the glass and there is no sign of this. Thanks for posting my photo !


Offline butchiedog

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Rare Stained rim, Fostoria American ? INDIANA
« Reply #5 on: May 20, 2005, 03:00:35 PM »
itsalison2,

From the 1950s on (the time period their "Whitehall" line was made) the Indiana Glass Company was not a very sophisticated operation, they made many of their lines using the oddest and cheapest methods possible. They made utilitarian glassware to be sold wherever they could possibly get someone to carry it and their main concern was sales, not producing high quality wares. Color flashing glassware would be too expensive a process for them, since they sold their wares in bulk, so cheaply that it would not have been cost effective.  

I emailed you picture to a friend who knows a good deal about this company and he told me that Indiana did produce some amber stained items in their "Whitehall" line, but discontinued it for lack of public interest. My friend agrees with me that yours looks as if the color has faded a good bit, which is common on all of their stained items, depending on how they were cared for or cleaned. Their staining treatments are not the same as you find on other glass companies items, the materials used are totally different and tend to fade in color from being washed in strong detergents and over time the staining will simply wear away. This wear is usually even all over, rather than the flaking and scratching you might see on other glass maker's stained items or items that were cold painted and the color not fired on.

While "Whitehall" items done in an amber stain are not as common as those done in a ruby or cranberry colored stain;  they are not necessarily considered to be "rare", at least not where the potential resale value is concerned, because they just aren't popular with glass collectors, who even snub the Indiana ruby or cranberry colored stained "Whitehall" items.

The fact is;  the name "Indiana Whitehall" is cursed with a bit of a stigma in the collecting market. The name is synonymous with cheap and people see it as an attempt by a lower end glass company to compete with a higher end glass company.  What does sell to some glass collectors (in the "Whitehall" line) is that which they mistakenly purchase believing it is Fostoria's "American" line.

I wish I had better news to share with you on this, but sometimes things that look or seem to be pretty nice or rare turn out to be things that there is very little interest in for one reason or another. Supply and Demand are what drive the market and sometimes Demand can trump Supply when it comes to rare items.

Mike


Offline Frank

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Rare Stained rim, Fostoria American ? INDIANA
« Reply #6 on: May 20, 2005, 03:41:13 PM »
Perhaps a 'good' collection of Indiana glass would be easier to build :!:
Frank A.
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Offline butchiedog

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Rare Stained rim, Fostoria American ? INDIANA
« Reply #7 on: May 20, 2005, 04:54:55 PM »
Hi Frank,

Yes;  Indiana has on occasion done some pretty interesting things, like their production of items made using the old Bischoff shape molds, but these all seem to be short lived and sooner or later will become more important in the area of collectible glass, once people become more aware of them. Most of their glass before 1950 does well and later items they made for Tiara also does well too.

They do have a number of pattern lines which nobody seems to care a good deal about and that is mainly because they mass-produced so much and the commonness makes it less interesting. "Whitehall" and their "Diamondpoint" patterns are just two examples. Every garage and rummage sale in America has at least one piece, which has to be taken back in the house or packed away at the end of the sale for lack of interest in it.

We have a nice Ice tea set (pitcher & glasses) and some other serving pieces in the "Whitehall" pattern, which we purchased because we liked the look of it and they were much cheaper than buying brand new items for the same use. We use these items for everyday purposes, without caring about them getting broken, because they are so easily and cheaply replaceable.

Sooner or later there will be a collectible market for everything, it just depends on people's tastes changing or on whatever fad happens to come along and stir things up. In the early days of ebay and TV shows like "Antiques Road Show" it was a fad for people of a certain age to start collecting or just buying a few things that they remembered their parents and grandparents having when they were young, but that fad has gone by the wayside pretty much and now those same folks are into all of the home decorating TV shows and are spending their money on that fad, until the next big thing comes along.

As far as Indiana glass collecting goes;  one could browse ebay's completed auctions and take notes on which items made by that company do better than others and start from there to build a collection of it. It takes someone to begin collecting something for it to become a popular collectible and increase in value. Knowing this;   I don't want to discourage anyone from collecting anything they like, because I may have the same thing and their collecting it will drive up the value of what I have, but at the same time I don't want to give anyone the false impression that something is more important at the moment than it is.

Mike


Offline Frank

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Rare Stained rim, Fostoria American ? INDIANA
« Reply #8 on: May 20, 2005, 05:57:52 PM »
Quote from: "butchiedog"
As far as Indiana glass collecting goes;  one could browse ebay's completed auctions and take notes on which items made by that company do better than others and start from there to build a collection of it.


Using eBay as a guideline should result in an interesting collection :twisted:  or do the Indiana pieces get properly ID'd?

Of course, some good pieces and a lot of yuk, applies to just about any glass works - even Monart produced a high percentage of poor pieces amongst the real gems.
Frank A.
Please help preserve glass web-sites for posterity by donating to The Glass Study Association a non-profit organisation.
Scotland's Glass - Ysart Glass
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Offline butchiedog

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Rare Stained rim, Fostoria American ? INDIANA
« Reply #9 on: May 20, 2005, 06:33:57 PM »
Frank,

Yes;  Indiana glass is usually listed on ebay correctly, by those who are honest enough to not try and list it as being something better when the pattern is similar to another glass maker..

Sometimes a few look-a-like patterns, by better glass makers get listed as Indiana glass and the people who collect the better glass always check and snap it up cheap when they find it.

The good thing about Indiana glass is; there is enough of it listed on ebay to check other Indiana glass auctions and see that many other sellers are listing it as the same thing.

Sometimes ebay sellers have the original packaging in their photos, which helps to back the ID up. One could build a nice, reliable reference file by copying and saving the photos that show the original packaging.

Mike

 

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