Topic: "Belge" mark in glass hen on nest covered dish

[Cathy B]

Hi Christine,

I actually sent the vase to Angela, as I couldn't find my elf posy and felt she was better placed to make the comparison.

From her photographs, it's obvious that they are from different moulds. Very clearly so. The Bagley is 'wavier' - i.e. the wave peaks are higher, and there are more of them per line. There are 15 wave peaks on the Bagley, and only 9 on the Belgian vase. Also, there are only 15 waves on the Bagley, whereas there are at least 16 waves on the Belgian - they sort of peter out at the end so I wasn't sure whether there might be another faint wave there.

Also, the Bagley vase has three quite prominent mould marks, whereas the Belgian has none. But the Belgian piece was satinised. Would the acid treatment be enough to make the mould marks undetectable? My feeling was that the Belgian piece was very nicely made.

This answer probably needs to be appended to that original message, and also it might be worth opening a thread on Inwald and Walther designed pieces marked Made in Belgium.

Not just now though... For my last Uni unit, I wrote 20,000 words in 5 days and now I have to edit them before 31 Oct in the vague hope that they will become coherent, because at the moment they ain't! It's put me off writing for life, just about: now I'm thinking of taking up something staid and sensible as a hobby. Narcolepsy perhaps, which at least would be restful.

[Lustrousstone]

Sounds like one or the other was copycat design rather than the same mould then. 

Well done, that's a lot of words - hopefully they all make sense!  :hiclp:

[Cathy B]

The question, as always, is who was copying whom. It's another question for Angela!

Re all those words -  I think they make sense, but it has serious problems like loose ends, illogical happenings and flat characters. Two characters disappear into a cave never to be seen again, not by design and for tragic effect, but because I pretty much just forgot about them... And those are only the deficiencies I can find; who knows what my supervisor will think. His email bounced it a couple of times and I wondered whether it was because AAPT had a taste filter. :chky:

[Jay]

I have got some answers to our questions 'from the horses mouth' and will be updating my website shortly to include new info... however as a start:

According to Boom factory manager F van Ransbeeck:
"The only pressed glass that was made at Boom was ashtrays, insulators, cats-eyes, and lens glass for torches. (no vases, bowls etc!) and it was NOT marked!"
(Provisional conclusion: ONLY VSL was making pressed glass in Belgium after 1940?! or perhaps Ivo can specify any exceptions?!)

He also confirms that Boom employed workers who had previously worked in Bohemian factories, so it confirms that employees (and techniques) were moving back AND forth.


Given some of the comments above I feel compelled to draw your attention to some historical details. After the division of Germany (Yalta agreement etc) the Walther factory in Dresden became part of East Germany.
As such it shared a common problem with it's communist neighbours including Czechoslovakia. The Breton Woods agreement (which replaced Marshall Aid ) used trade/tariff mechanisms to encourage WEST European countries like Belgium, France, Holland and West Germany to export and rebuild with the profits.
The Soviet regieme was consequently cut off from all the western markets it had enjoyed pre-war.

It seems obvious that this is the period in which, as well as the reason why, two communist-run factories would start stamping 'Made in Belgium' onto their products.
As we all know, there were lots of Belgian factories which will have made it harder to check!
(If they had said 'Holland' then any question about labelling would've been answered in three phonecalls! By saying 'Belgium' they made it harder to trace!)

[Jay]

The puzzle has remained unsolved, but the search continues:

Boom did not make any pressed glass in this style. Nor did Scailmont (although they DID have the skills to make them)

The 'Fait en Belgique' mark is almost identical (font)  to marks on Val St Lambert pressed glass.

Although there are a few Belgian factories whose production is still unknown (e.g. Famillereux) but they mostly stopped production before the period in which these items seem to be made. There are quite a few recorded examples (see above), but no evidence or memories to suggest they were produced in Belgium.

Does anybody know the original maker of this pattern, so that we can add it to the list that Glen started

>>>
Jacobean / Milord
Inwald (Czech) and Davidson (UK)

#2266 Chunky aka English Hob & Button
Sowerby (UK) and Indiana (USA)

Rose Garden aka Rosen aka Rosor
Brockwitz (Germany) and Eda Glasbruk (Sweden)

Sunk Daisy aka Red Sunflower aka Amerika
Cambridge (USA) and Eda Glasbruk (Sweden) and Riihimaki (Finland)

[Anne Tique]

The only thing I know about the marks 'Belge' and 'Fait en Belgique' is that they were marks to avoid import taxes. Several models from Inwald, Walter and Brockwitz  etc can be found, as you know, with these marks. By marking them at the place of manufacture, there were no taxes to be paid once they were imported and it was a clever way to avoid them....something to do with law and legislation. The marks mentioned are very often attributed to Scailmont but there were 35 factories just in Wallonia at the time, so it's difficult to pinpoint the importer.

The only way is through catalogues I guess, I haven't got anything mentioned in books and I have been looking for some  time now to find an answer to that question.

[Jay]

However only a few of the 30 had the resources for pressed glass, and these pieces seem to date from a period when most of the smaller Belgian factories were already struggling or dead.
If they were really made in Belgium then they would look more like Luxval?! or something else that we would recognise by colour, press-quality, hand finising. seams, etc.
The quality and date (and a possible explanation for the fake mark) might be Preciosa? They -see wikipedia - (and others) would also have been prepared to copy the (VSL) mark 'Fait en Belgique' from an example and make a new base plate. They probably made a spelling error when casting the 'BELGE' base plates LOL! and being part of the state in the East they were not likely to worry about copyright law either!
Of course they/whoever will (also) have been trying to avoid duties and tariffs etc. by this little deception.

[Anne Tique]

However only a few of the 30 had the resources for pressed glass, and these pieces seem to date from a period when most of the smaller Belgian factories were already struggling or dead.
If they were really made in Belgium then they would look more like Luxval?! or something else that we would recognise by colour, press-quality, hand finising. seams, etc.

This is exactly what I was trying to say … from what I understand, they were not made in Belgium, they didn't see Belgian soil until they were imported.

[Jay]

I'm reading and re-reading both on internet and doc  sources, and I want to substantively quash the myth that seems to re-ignite the flame. Maybe I'm touchy because people think that there is an omission on my site, so now I'll put in a clearer explanation for context.
Seems all the experts are agreed!


"Items marked "BELGE" have NO proven link to the country of Belgium, and were NOT manufactured there!" (It is possible that the same factory also misused a 'FAIT EN BELGIQUE" press-mark (cf Val St Lambert)

[Anne Tique]

Yes i think you're right there, the only link these pieces had was that they were sold in Belgium and that's as far as it goes.

Re 'Fait en Belgique' being used by VSL, I've only come across signatures 'VSL - Belgique' or 'VSL- Belgium' but always with VSL and without 'Fait en'.... Never just 'Fait en Belgique'.