Author Topic: scavo vs corroso  (Read 1658 times)

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Offline bidda

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scavo vs corroso
« on: September 14, 2007, 07:16:35 PM »
hi everyone. i know this issue has come up before (because i read all the threads that contained both words ha ha) and i thought i understood the difference but the more pictures i look at the more confused i get.

i have three small pieces (a vase and two pitchers) that i think are scavo (they don't have labels but they all come from the same collection and i was told that they were purchased during a trip to italy in the 1950's).
vase (5 inches):
http://www.schellers.org/AdvHTML_Upload/scavo51.jpg
http://www.schellers.org/AdvHTML_Upload/scavo52.jpg
http://www.schellers.org/AdvHTML_Upload/scavo53.jpg
http://www.schellers.org/AdvHTML_Upload/scavo54.jpg
pitcher (4.5 inches):
http://www.schellers.org/AdvHTML_Upload/scavo41.jpg
http://www.schellers.org/AdvHTML_Upload/scavo42.jpg
http://www.schellers.org/AdvHTML_Upload/scavo43.jpg
pitcher (3.5 inches):
http://www.schellers.org/AdvHTML_Upload/scavo31.jpg
http://www.schellers.org/AdvHTML_Upload/scavo32.jpg
http://www.schellers.org/AdvHTML_Upload/scavo33.jpg
http://www.schellers.org/AdvHTML_Upload/scavo34.jpg

then i was looking for something similar to help with attribution and saw a vase very similar to mine with a label called corroso. http://www.antiquehelper.com/item.php?itemID=8737

so, are these pieces scavo, corroso or just junk?   :ac1:

thanks,

bidda


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Offline langhaugh

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Re: scavo vs corroso
« Reply #1 on: September 15, 2007, 08:18:34 AM »
It's late (in BC, Canada anyhow) so I haven't checked the threads you mention; excuse me if I repeat everything that's there.

My understanding is that scavo is intended to replicate the effect created in glass that has been in the ground some time (old Roman glass found by archaelogists). (I think that scavo means something to do with digging in Italian.) According to the techniques described on the Loschs site, "scavo is created when the hot surface of a vessel is treated with ash, metal salts or fine sand." A residue is left on the surface of the glass. Corroso is "where acid is placed on the finished surface of the vessel to create a corroded surface."

Those descriptions certainly fit the glass I've got. I have a blue scavo vase marked "Cenedese" that is matte and has dirty black streaks. I also have what I think is a Seguso corroso bowl (with a Saks 5th Avenue label). Clearly, the acid has dissolved the surface of the glass to different extents at different points. I think I remember reading that corroso could also involve waxing parts of the vase to accentuate the effect.

I've also seen scavo being used by modern studio artists, Rik Allen in the States for one. His scavo leaves the glass with a pitted effect, which looks quite different from Murano scavo. If he didn't name it scavo, I'd think it was a form of corroso. This is also true of another couple of artists' work I've seen.

Your glass looks like scavo to me, although I' can't be totally certain just from looking at the pictures. I can't remember ever seeing scavo in those colours or shapes.

David
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Offline bidda

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Re: scavo vs corroso
« Reply #2 on: September 15, 2007, 06:54:59 PM »
thanks David.

that's what i thought but it's nice to have confirmation. would you have any idea as to a maker or approx. value of these pieces? i'm guessing Cenedese but i've read that Barbini made a lot of scavo pieces too.

bidda
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Offline Ivo

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Re: scavo vs corroso
« Reply #3 on: September 15, 2007, 07:01:09 PM »
If it is ultralight it probably originated in Israel. If it is heavy chances are it was made by Lafiore in Mallorca. And if it is of high quality it may have been made in Italy - possibly by Formio. 
Ivo
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Offline bidda

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Re: scavo vs corroso
« Reply #4 on: September 15, 2007, 08:07:57 PM »
Ivo,

they are all quite heavy for their size. the seller informed me that they were purchased in italy during the 50's and the photo i found that was of a similar vase (same berry prunts and finish but larger size and different base color) was attributed to Cenedese and had a red on gold Murano label (last link in initial post) so i suspect italy is correct. is Formio the same as Formia? do you suspect these pieces are modern reproductions (and thus, were sold under false pretenses)? i've looked through the old and new catalogs available on the Formia website and found that most of their scavo (which they call excave) is very uniform in it's finish which is not the case with my pieces. i'm not very familiar with Lafiore. i've looked at their current catalog but didn't see anything similar. do you know where i might find images from past catalogs so i can continue looking for something that is similar to what i've got? thanks for your input,

bidda
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Offline Ivo

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Re: scavo vs corroso
« Reply #5 on: September 15, 2007, 08:55:38 PM »
If these pieces were purchased in Italy 1950s then that would be the source.  Cenedese is a good enough guess - as long as you're aware not all glass was made by big names. I think Formia (sorry for the -o confusion) used to be specialised in scavo before they expanded.   

Lafiore has a full range of these and sells all over Spain - especially in roman towns like Merida - but they were not around in the 1950s and they do not have catalogues.
Ivo
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all texts and pictures (c) Ivo Haanstra.


Offline TxSilver

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Re: scavo vs corroso
« Reply #6 on: September 15, 2007, 10:22:29 PM »
Bidda, I understand the problem you are having. I had three scavo-type vases that I worked on for a few months. One turned out to be Murano. One turned out to be from Taiwan. And one is still unknown. The last looked a bit like a squat Blenko with a snake around the neck and a true scavo finish.

I do not get a Cenedese or Barbini feel for your glass, but there is much I haven't seen. I agree that your glass looks scavo, but there are many companies that made scavo type finishes. The scavo that I have seen looks a lot like coroso, but has mineral deposits. My vases had white and brown deposits.

Anita
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Offline bidda

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Re: scavo vs corroso
« Reply #7 on: September 15, 2007, 10:51:45 PM »
Anita,

the only thing that made me think Cenedese was this link http://www.antiquehelper.com/item.php?itemID=8737 to a vase that looks very similar to my vase. the attribution there is dicey (includes a ?) but it does bear an old Murano label. i know that all three of my pieces came from the same collection and were purchased at the same time (1950s in italy, according to the original owner). so, i'm pretty confident that they are all Murano but don't really have a clue as to who might have made them.

as to your squat vase with the snaky coil, might it look anything like one of these http://www.lafiore.com/tienda/coleccion.php?id=2
http://formiaglass.it/scheda.asp?ID=322 (when Ivo made the suggestions about formia and lafiore, i went on a mission ha ha).

bidda
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Offline Laura Friedman

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Re: scavo vs corroso
« Reply #8 on: September 16, 2007, 06:10:43 PM »
When Alfredo Barbini did his scavo designs for Cendese, he was trying to get something similar to the look of excavated Roman glass. But (and here is the clue to the vases shown above) he always used this technique with modern forms. The goal was not to mimic ancient glass, but to do a contemporary homage.  His vases always had simple, modern forms and sometimes "primative-modern" scenes done in raised glass. 

These items appear to be trying to mimic roman glass. They are reproductions. This is why they were probably not produced by Cenedese.


Offline bidda

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Re: scavo vs corroso
« Reply #9 on: September 16, 2007, 06:38:52 PM »
Laura,

have you any idea who might have made them if not Cenedese?

bidda
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