Who are the important British Domestic Glass designers of the 20th century?

[sph@ngw]

I ask this for as many of you may have read, and a few seen, we have opened a Museum of 20th century British Domestic Glass at Nazeing Glass Works.
I have chosen a few I knew and liked starting with Geoffrey Baxter, Ronnie Stennett-Willson, Frank Thrower, Michael Harris ( responsible for starting 4  glass factories- is this a record?), Roger Phillippo, (our in house designer Wild Rose, Executive Suite, etc)..but who else?
Keith Murray? Irene Stevens? Margaret Casson, David Queensbury? Colin Terris? Dairmoid O'Brien (forgive crap spelling!) and  Jane Beebe
Suggestions are welcome!

[Frank]

Spelling: Domhnall Ó Broin

Is the criteria Domestic Glassware? What are the exclusions/inclusions?

[Ivo]

What an insular perspective.

[Sklounion]

With respect to Ivo's reservations and (imho) justifiable view:
Hardie Williamson, RY Goodden, Annette Meech, John Clappison. E Downey...Luxton, Sutherland, Keith Murray ad infinitum.....
Yes I understand the insular view, but Kny, Pfohl, Frankenhauser and others have all been influential.... British design does not exist in a vacuum, without the exchange and re-interpretation, that the international migration of ideas brings.
Marcus

[Frank]

Actually Domnhall is out too, Irish.

I was a little taken aback by the insular remark, after all it is a Museum about British glass and as we know does include non-British items. So the criteria of the exhibits if applied to Domestic Glass designers will allow for non-British inclusions.

But what is the harm in displaying just Brits? I suppose a simple parallel would be a railway train where the first carriage is British, next French, then Dutch, then a few more British... take out the non Brits and only one coach reaches its destination. So trying to illustrate 20th Century domestic glass design with only Brits results in an incomplete picture which will surely leave the observer wondering. In the late 1920's the British government were exhorting the UK glass makers to learn lessons from other countries in the use of designers... indeed it was a German, Peter Behrens, that is widely considered to be the father of Industrial Design. If the 20th century was the first century of design as a discipline then any exhibition is surely at its best if can tell a complete story. A museum is an educational resource and as such has a duty to educate as well as preserve history. A British industrial museum has a right to be just that, but as I think about it, I realise that value would be increased by telling a complete story. Showing how different 'nationalities' have worked together as 'one people' to create, for example, a glass pot totally suited to the task of holding asparagus spears. How the different elements evolved with influences from everywhere and how a British company brought it to market with some 'British' twists, while at the same time it was launched in 20 other countries with localised twists...

Perhaps we also need to consider the modern information age where ideas have few borders, like these forums. I recall not long ago, a US Glass designer consulted this board for ideas for a Swedish glass works. The input came from many countries.

But Stephen, you started with a list but did not clearly state what you were trying to reach. Perhaps that makes a difference in how it is perceived.

A complication is that is sometimes unclear who a designer was. There is no doubt that Monart has had a major impact on glass design in Scotland and to some extent England too. (No, it was not copied from Scheider, nor Daum, nor Baccarat, perhaps influenced by LeGras but that is unconfirmed). The original concept is fairly well agreed to be Salvador Ysart circa 1922, later Mrs Moncrieff was said to be responsible for all of the designs, yet she was out of the picture by the mid 30's. Ian Turner recently showed that Paul Ysart was heavily involved in the pattern books as they are annotated in his hand - a remarkable discovery considering how often he was interviewed in his later life. But there you are left with 3 names to pick on as THE designer - but chronologically Salvador came first, does that entitle him. Did he work with Mrs Moncrieff in creating the drawings, were the 300+ shapes a team effort? Perhaps the designer is better stated as Moncrieff design Team! But none were formally trained in design, nor attended art school, does that make them amateurs - can amateurs be allowed in to the hallowed hall of 'Designer'. 

[Max]

So trying to illustrate 20th Century domestic glass design with only Brits results in an incomplete picture which will surely leave the observer wondering.

Fraaaaaaaaank!  It's not an ideal world out there, and a museum has to start somewhere.  Surely the most important thing is securing items for preservation before the history is lost?  We could argue which nationalilities should be included until the cows come home...but it's not progress for the museum, is it?   :huh:

I just can't imagine the complexities of starting a museum from scratch.  I guess one has to keep it simple to start with?

[Frank]

  Sure Max. I was discussing issues raised and exploring them, not particularly making judgements.

[Bernard C]

You all appear to have forgotten the two most influential, Adam Dodds I, and Ernest Jobling-Purser.

Bernard C. 

[Glen]

You all appear to have forgotten the two most influential, Adam Dodds I, and Ernest Jobling-Purser.

Bernard C. 

You took the words right out of my mouth, Bernard. Adam Dodds I for his Tynesyde Glassware (and more). And may I add John Jenkins too?

[Bernard C]

You all appear to have forgotten the two most influential, Adam Dodds I, and Ernest Jobling-Purser.

Bernard C. 

You took the words right out of my mouth, Bernard. Adam Dodds I for his Tynesyde Glassware (and more). And may I add John Jenkins too?

I forgot to say why.   Thanks, Glen, for explaining Adam's grandfather.   I included Ernest Jobling-Purser, not for his 1930s art glass, much of it modelled by Etienne Franckhauser (sic), but for his Pyrex.

What was important was what was sold in huge quantities in Woolworth's, Home & Colonial, and the Co-op, not expensive glass sold to the wealthy in a handful of London shops.

Now, Glen, who was John Jenkins?   I've heard the name before, but I can't remember where!

Bernard C. 

[David E]

Howard Stabler (Orlak, but whose designs were then used for Pyrex - Jobling), Margaret Casson (Night Sky), David Hammond (Webb) are others. Marcus has already mentioned others within my particular sphere of interest.

[Glen]

Bernard - a huge "yes" to all you said above.

You asked about John Jenkins: he was the British impetus (business and design) for the Barolac range of glass, working with Inwald in Czechoslovakia. Although much of it was decorative, it was also functional glassware.

[NazeingResearch]

What an insular perspective.

Does glass make people angry, or does it just attract angry people?

If you go to Dartington, you can look at Dartington Glass. If you go to Caithness, you can look at Caithness Glass, and the same rule applies to what few factories are still operating in the country. You can come to Nazeing, and see Glass made from the vast majority of all the factories that produced glass between 1900 and the present day in Britain, as well as glass from Scandinavia, France, Germany, Italy to name a few. In addition to that there is a room dedicated to influenced and influencial designers who worked with factories from all over the world. Not only that, but you are being asked, which designers you think should be mentioned and even exhibited in the museum. How often does that happen?

On a different note completely, I vote I be included as well as Adam Dodds and Bernard. I drew a picture of a glass once, and it looked quite good. 

fin

[Frank]

Bear in mind that Holland has a National Glass Museum and the general advice to those interested in glass is often - do not bother to visit it.

The original request was unclear as to the criteria/intentions of what is being planned as that, obviously, has a bearing on such suggestions.

[Adam]

Although I know that he was a very good manager and possibly innovator, is there any evidence that my grandfather ever designed anything?  As many know, I never actually knew him.  He appeared in the 1901 (I think) census as Works Cashier.

Adam D.