Who are the important British Domestic Glass designers of the 20th century?

[aa]

I'm not so sure about Annette Meech - but she was/is primarily an art glass designer.

Where do you draw the line? There are some important studios that produce(d) domestic glassware. It just depends what your criteria are.
Just because it was hand made doesn't mean it wasn't significant.

Cowdy Glass (Pauline Solven) and Lindean Mill (David Kaplan and Annica Sandstrom) spring to mind, among others as producing some outstanding work. However, the entire output of the whole lifespan of those studios is significantly less than what the Arc group produces per hour!

Annette Meech also designed a range of tableware (wine glasses) for Cowdy.

If you are trying to establish who the important designers are, I would advise against using criteria that include either scale of production or method of production and try to judge purely on an aesthetic basis.

[Frank]

I think Adam makes important points (for new members: Adam is a glass artist/designer/gallery of international repute.) and I think amply illustrates that this a subject of incredible depth.

The collective reactions to Stephen's/Nazeing Museum original requests shows that glass collectors, researchers and makers have a lot to say on the subject. But to address the original question it is possibly unhelpful and clearly it will not be possible to just make a list of the 'designers' we know about. I would suggest that a new thread be created to try and explore the subject in greater depth to try and get a better picture of 20th century glass design with a focus on British Glass. (Wider might be asking too much?). Perhaps this could lead to a list of people and what their impact was.

[sph@ngw]

Great idea Frank, I second that!
Stephen

[johnphillip]

I thought Keith Murray was a Kiwi,have i got it wrong,

[Cathy B]

Keith Murray was definitely a Kiwi, but he did all of his work in the UK. He's too important to omit, I think.

[Bernard C]

... If you are trying to establish who the important designers are, I would advise against using criteria that include either scale of production or method of production and try to judge purely on an aesthetic basis.

How?   You will get a different view from everyone.   Ideally importance should be based on something that can be evaluated, albeit very roughly, like success in monetary terms.   And I think there is a good case for including influential innovative designs and techniques as well, whether or not they were financially successful in their original form, as long as eventually they led to successful designs.

On a minor point, I wish I could see some distinction between the 1930s emergence of signed designer goods as a marketing strategy and what is being discussed here, important designers.   There is some overlap, but they are not the same.

Bernard C. 

[aa]

Bernard
Here is a good example: http://www.bernard.cavalot.btinternet.co.uk/dj7cp2_view.jpg

Super jam pot. Designer unknown. Quantity produced unknown. Quote from you:  "I think this little pot was probably a trade sample from a projected range that was subsequently rejected. Hence its rarity - I have not found anyone who has ever seen anything like it before."

Quite possibly should be in  a museum. It doesn't matter how many were produced or how it was produced.

Many great designs and designers are/were not financially successful and often it can be difficult to find examples remaining.

[johnphillip]

I am happy to include Keith Murray as i have three of his decanters all with glasses including one very early one.i also have a Paul Nash decanter maybe we should include him.

[Bernard C]

Nice try, Adam, but you couldn't have chosen a worse example for this topic, as it's Fostoria's American pattern, albeit made by Davidson, probably from a Fostoria mould loaned to Davidson for evaluation purposes.   Nevertheless you made me laugh — important as this topic was getting much too serious.
Bernard C. 

[Frank]

Moderators can you perhaps execute this suggestion, the original thread could retain a list of names, mentioned so far and the rest of the posts split into a new thread stickied to the top. Give it 6 months then start others on other countries... 

... I would suggest that a new thread be created to try and explore the subject in greater depth to try and get a better picture of 20th century glass design with a focus on British Glass. (Wider might be asking too much?). Perhaps this could lead to a list of people and what their impact was.

Great idea Frank, I second that!
Stephen

[nigel benson]

Can I suggest that you complement your exhibitions with a permanent set of web pages, illustrating everything in the exhibition with good sized images... you could start it towards the end of the exhibition perhaps?
 

Whilst I understand the logic behind this Frank, might it not reduce the need to visit the exhibition? Great if you are unable to visit if you live too far away, but possibly a little self-defeating if your aim is to get footfall? I do recognise the need for online resources, but in my opinion there is no substitute for seeing the three-dimensional item wherever possible. Maybe something that achieves a result for both terrestial and internet visitors, or even a comprehensive catalogue? 

I was away when this thread was started and discussed I'm afraid. Whilst there are indeed a number of helpful suggestions for Stephen to consider it leaves me with the over-riding feeling that the initial question has not been answered (or if it has, it is not coherent).  Many ideas have been introduced, but without seemingly considering what the motivator behind this project (Stephen) wants to achieve. Moreover, has anyone considered the budget that might be available or the space that has been given over for the time being? Lets be realistic, neither are likely to be, lets say, along the lines of having access to lottery money, after all everyone has a budget and only so much space available. I would therefore urge people to be sympathetic to the question posed and the posibilities available in order that we can give what little help we can to this project.

Lastly, and I am sorry Frank, as it was your comment about Domhnall O'Broin that made me wonder...............if an Irish designer who created the first ranges for Caithness in the mid 60's is out, then I suppose a family of Spanish glassblowers, who also worked in Scotland, might also be out? :(

I genuinely think if this thread is going to continue then perhaps more thought (maybe even answers to questions) is/are necessary to help give the information that is needed by Stephen for his museum, to whom I wish much success.

Nigel

[Frank]

Fully support your comments Nigel.

The web site suggestion was intended to be for exhibitions, that I assumed to be temporary.

The dilemma of nationality is of course a major one as you illustrate, glass folk had such itchy feet and it makes it very difficult to approach such a list when the question is ambiguous - my first post and those of subsequent posters were looking for a criteria that made it clear. As you can see we went all over the place.

Trying to build something more wide-ranging here, does not leave non-British members feeling left out, and would certainly be helpful in the short term for the original quest and also long term for our community in general. But it needs someone to keep it alive... I am too busy now.

[nigel benson]

Hello again,

I'm afraid I didn't see the question  "Who are the important British Domestic Glass designers of the 20th century?" as ambiguous, more a question of how long , or how short the list should or could be.

By contributing clearly to a list any names that a contributor interprets as being necessary to include on the list, Stephen could then tailor his requirements within the list that might be achieved (whilst also factoring in his budget and being aware of the space available). The latter can only be known to him and therefore our contribution would be to provide names that maybe suitable. I don't believe that we really need to know the parameters, since the question is fairly straightforward - please add to this basic list/requirement.

Indeed, having curated several exhibitions myself, I am only too aware that the parameters can reveal themselves once the bulk of the information has been collected. It is this information that can be a guide toward something that will, hopefully, be effective. It also allows one to think through what is and isn't necessary for a given project - in this case a Museum of British Domestic Glass.

Influences from other countries, whilst totally valid, can be dealt with on information boards and by using photographs. In other words, an awareness may well be necessary, but the items don't have to be included. As long as folks make this clear when they suggest names then the "criteria" previosly mentioned can all but look after itself.

As for anyone feeling left out of a thread because their interest is within another branch of glass collecting, or because they live abroad ............ surely it is not necessary to comment on everything that goes through these boards? Folks only need to read the thread in order to be included. I know of a number of people who read these boards, but refrain from making comment, and I am sure there are many more throughout the world that enjoy and learn from just this experience of the board.

Personally, I find that when I am able to check out the GMB, I only feel it necessary to comment when I believe I am adding to a debate, or, maybe, when I wish to help with the identity of an item. Of course we ALL learn from these boards, although, sometimes I feel a thread can be interupted by contributions that are best aired through the Cafe since the flow can be lost. Oh! ...... and I am aware that I'm guilty of this as I write, but I hope on this occasion for good reason

I did use the word exhibition in my previous post to mean the temporary exhibitions that may occur from time-to-time at the museum, however on re-reading I see that it could well be read in two ways - sorry about that. The point I made about footfall is as valid for the museum as a whole as it was concerning those temporary exhibitions. Furthermore, if people get the idea that they can see the temporary exhibition in the comfort of their own home if they only wait then I would suggest it is even more valid. It may lead to a very active online museum, but it could well lead to a very empty real museum :(

Anyway folks, how about a straightforward list of possible designers whose items (or influences) could be used to illustrate a Museum of British Domestic Glass?

Nigel

[Frank]

So only designers that are native British? And by domestic glass one assumes that covers oven and table ware, food containers, bottles but to exclude vases and ornamental glass? Do we also exclude decoration designers?

[Frank]

1. Q.V.F. (Subsidiary of Joblings) Pyrex waste line and sink traps 1950's (Installation Nottingham University)

2. George B. Ritchie. Assistant designer, Jobling's 1956-?.

1 & 2 source Mixed Batch 1958.

3. Crystalware Limited, designed domestic glass ranges of 1950 standards. (PG Advert Jan 1950)