thanks Anne for the info on posting a photo, i will remember this for the future. back to the main question, from what's been said sofar, am i right in believing that some " makers " never actually made their own glass but got other glassworks to make it and then put their own name on the glass, if that is so, how can we ever be certain who did actually make it, confused or what!!!! i certainly am, i look forward to the next instalment, cheers all