Author Topic: I know it's Italian, but who???  (Read 1850 times)

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Sklounion

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Re: I know it's Italian, but who???
« Reply #10 on: November 24, 2007, 04:14:23 PM »
Hi Dglass123,
Your link shows a teal piece much the same as yours. However, the item description is disingenuous. The "Made in Italy" label is no indication that the item was made in Murano, and the seller is  (imho) inaccurate in suggesting that is the case.
Regards,
Marcus


Offline Pip

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Re: I know it's Italian, but who???
« Reply #11 on: November 24, 2007, 05:22:31 PM »
Good point Marcus - I have several pieces of Italian glass with the exact same label and as you say that does not automatically mean they are Murano production.  I tend to agree with Bernard and Shandiane that these are more likely Empoli (mainland Italy).  One has to bear in mind that Ruby Lane is akin to eBay - sellers can make whatever claims and jump to whatever conclusions they want and attributions are not necessarily correct or accurate.

Whilst these are nice items and, as Bernard says good pieces of design, they're not particularly intricate or 'special' - just a pair of reasonably nice, useful candleholders made somewhere in Italy.


Offline Lustrousstone

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Re: I know it's Italian, but who???
« Reply #12 on: November 24, 2007, 06:07:43 PM »
Don't Murano labels generally have Murano on them rather than just Italy?


Offline Ivo

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Re: I know it's Italian, but who???
« Reply #13 on: November 24, 2007, 06:21:32 PM »
Anything done in bottle amber is likely to be from Empoli, more specifically from Vetreria Empoli or Toso Bagnoli and not from Murano. I cannot see anything in the above discussion that would point at Murano or justify a 35 $ price tag.
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Offline Dglass123

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Re: I know it's Italian, but who???
« Reply #14 on: November 24, 2007, 06:54:17 PM »
OK... I'm just trying to find out where this was made. The link that I entered in my last message is not my piece and I don't care if that person was trying to sell it for a million dollars. I'm trying to get some history on the pieces I purchased and after reading the responses it looks like I have a good start.


Offline Frank

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Re: I know it's Italian, but who???
« Reply #15 on: November 24, 2007, 08:50:11 PM »
It might be worth contacting Empoli as they seem to be appealing to collectors now http://www.vetreriediempoli.it/home.cfm?lingua=EN

Toso Bagnoli has little on-line info in English http://www.comune.empoli.fi.it/cdv/museo/vetrerie/toso.htm

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Offline Dglass123

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Re: I know it's Italian, but who???
« Reply #16 on: November 24, 2007, 09:05:50 PM »
Thank you


Offline aa

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Re: I know it's Italian, but who???
« Reply #17 on: November 24, 2007, 10:17:52 PM »
They look pressed to me, which is how the candleholder would have been shaped, then attached to the pontil rod for shaping and finishing the rim.   Possibly swung.  Interesting combination of manufacturing techniques.   A lot of intelligent and creative design has gone into them.

I'm not sure about the pressed idea. I'm going email the link to Adam D. But you can never tell from an image. I think that you are right about them being swung, though.

So, I wonder who the genius designer was.   And why aren't they in every shop in the High Street?
Bernard C.  8)

I suspect that the genius designer was better at coming up with ideas than finding a way to execute them. I think that they have been blown and sheared at an angle and then swung. Tricky to do and even more tricky to do on a regular basis. This could make them rare in the uncommon but not valuable sense.
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Offline Bernard C

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Re: I know it's Italian, but who???
« Reply #18 on: November 25, 2007, 03:32:36 AM »
Adam — I visualised it coming out of the mould as a lop-sided bowl, something like a Dartington avocado dish, with the candleholder complete in the base.   The attachment to the pontil rod would provide a heat sink to stop the candleholder becoming mis-shapen when the upper part of the bowl was re-heated.

Bernard C.  8)
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Offline Adam

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Re: I know it's Italian, but who???
« Reply #19 on: November 25, 2007, 03:06:33 PM »
Thanks, Adam, I probably would have missed this one (for confused newcomers, Adam D. is me and Adam A. is "aa").

I can't see how this thing could have started life as anything but a pressing because of the candleholder bit.  After that it's obviously been stretched, but just how is a puzzle.  Two puzzles actually, the other one being how it was held for re-heating.  Is it a trick of the light or is there a scar from a blower's-type pontil?  I can see no trace of grinding and polishing on the bottom of the mark from a presser's-type iron punty.  If the former then this is the first time I have seen such a method used on a pressed article.  Maybe I should get out more!  It does suggest pressing and hand-blowing skills working together. 

It could, of course, in theory have been gripped by the bulbous part but without leaving a mark?  I doubt it.  Some sort of vacuum chuck might have done the trick and if any form of automation were involved it would be something like that.  Guessing there, of course.

So far as the lop-sided stretch is concerned, yes, Bernard, it could have been pressed with a slanted top but as you know, only to a limited extent.  Lop-sided heating would then be applied followed perhaps by swinging.  That's where, as we used to say in court, I can claim no expertise.  Over to Adam A.

Adam, is it possible by swinging to get something to come out as flat and thin as that?  Wouldn't some sort of pulling or tooling be needed and could it be done without marking?

Adam D.

 

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