Author Topic: ID Help - Scottish weight  (Read 2105 times)

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Offline tropdevin

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ID Help - Scottish weight
« on: November 29, 2007, 10:06:45 AM »
Hi (especially to Scottish paperweight experts)

I have a 3" diameter weight that appear to me to be Ysart Bros / Vasart. The canes and base treatment look appropriate.  The glass is tinged grey/blue, and has more than its fair share of small bubbles. But is it a nicely made weight in other respect, and has the initials PKM within.  My guess is it is a frigger, made for a friend or family member. I originally thought that the 4 small dark blue crosses in the centre group were just flaws in the cane, but they appear to be intentional additions of blue glass, and are placed symmetrically in the design.

Any thoughts on maker / period, and particularly, PKM? 

http://i175.photobucket.com/albums/w155/rosismum/1150x.jpg
http://i175.photobucket.com/albums/w155/rosismum/1150c.jpg
http://i175.photobucket.com/albums/w155/rosismum/1150a.jpg
http://i175.photobucket.com/albums/w155/rosismum/1150x.jpg

Alan
Alan
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Offline RAY

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Re: ID Help - Scottish weight
« Reply #1 on: December 01, 2007, 09:21:46 PM »
it's a nice weight Alan , but sorry i would't have a clue which ysart made it and when, but did't monart use a stencil mark on some of it's items, as the letter's in your weight look like they've been done with a stencil
cheers Ray


Offline tropdevin

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Re: ID Help - Scottish weight
« Reply #2 on: December 02, 2007, 01:03:30 PM »
Hi All.

Problem solved!  I showed a picture of the weight to Catherine Rae yesterday (Vincent Ysart's daughter), and she knew the answer.  PKM are the initials of Peter K McClaren, who was a professional photographer.  He did much of the photographic work for the Monart factory, and amongst other things, Catherine's wedding photos. This weight was made by Vincent Ysart as a present.  Incidentally, following Vincent's death, Catherine's mother gave a large box of Vincent's containing many millefiori canes to Paul Ysart to use (which he did).

Alan
Alan
The comments in this posting reflect the opinion of the author, Alan Thornton, and not that of the owners, administrators or moderators of this board. Comments are copyright Alan Thornton. Please feel free to contact me direct if you do not agree with my comments and do not wish to make your concerns known by posting in this thread.
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Offline Frank

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Re: ID Help - Scottish weight
« Reply #3 on: December 02, 2007, 02:01:51 PM »
For years the McClaren brothers took pictures at the Vasart works, telling a story in pictures. After the McClaren brothers died all of their negatives etc. were put on a bonfire. Those that escaped this fate did get into the Perth Museum but almost all have been stolen from there. The Ysart family probably have the largest collection. One of the the brothers received an industrial photography/press award for one of his photos of Vincent Ysart.
Frank A.
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Offline KevinH

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Re: ID Help - Scottish weight
« Reply #4 on: December 02, 2007, 10:15:21 PM »
That's good to get the PKM initials sorted, Alan.

I was looking for, but could not yet find, my correspondence with Dave Moir of a couple of years ago (or longer?) about another, similar weight with exactly the same PKM initials. At the time, Dave had also asked John Deacons and the best suggestion then was Patrick Keith Murray (I think) who was a main landowner of an area near Perth, but this was not confirmed.

Hopefully, the latest information will be included for posterity in a future issue of the PCC Newsletter. It would also be very usuful to get the weight checked under shortwave UV to see if it is a pre-1956 or later item, but being made by Vincent, it can only be as late as 1965.
KevinH


Offline Frank

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Re: ID Help - Scottish weight
« Reply #5 on: December 02, 2007, 10:32:59 PM »
As I recall, the McClarens were there from the very beginning, very sad those negatives being lost. It would have given us so much.

So I like the theory that something commemorates those guys! :) Sadly history is more ruthless.
Frank A.
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Offline tropdevin

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Re: ID Help - Scottish weight
« Reply #6 on: December 03, 2007, 01:02:27 PM »
Hi Kev

An article was already planned! Here is a short wave UV image comparing it with an early Strathearn (top left) and a 1971 Perthshire Xmas weight (top right). The PKM weight is much less bright, and the slight blue you see is reflected from the other two. The basic fluorescence of the PKM is murky yellow-green, as seen across the middle of the weight. (As you know, I hate these subjective descriptions of fluroescence colours: they are a bit like wine tasting notes....two people can have very different interpretations of the same thing....but I have nothing better to offer without very expensive equipment).

Alan

http://i175.photobucket.com/albums/w155/rosismum/UVSStrPerVas.jpg
Alan
The comments in this posting reflect the opinion of the author, Alan Thornton, and not that of the owners, administrators or moderators of this board. Comments are copyright Alan Thornton. Please feel free to contact me direct if you do not agree with my comments and do not wish to make your concerns known by posting in this thread.
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Offline KevinH

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Re: ID Help - Scottish weight
« Reply #7 on: December 04, 2007, 02:12:51 PM »
I agree with Alan's reservations about fluorescence colour descriptions - particularly for the difficult-to-name colour of some Scottish weights from the 70s and later.

However, the comparison image does it job well - the PKM weight does not show as a clear blue colour and therefore my view is that is pre-1956 Vasart. But I won't go so far as to say it could be 1930s - the proof of that type of weight from pre-war years is almost non-existant.
KevinH


Offline mjr

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Re: ID Help - Scottish weight
« Reply #8 on: December 13, 2007, 01:20:17 PM »
Alan

You won't believe this, but I have just got back into the office after a stroll round town (Rump steak and caramelised red onion baguette - yummy), passed the market and picked up from a stall a very similar weight. Blue base, 6 complex canes at 1, 3, 4, 8, 9, oclock with stencilled PKM at 6 oclock, and a centre with 6 canes round a centre. Slightly flattened, ground out pontil and firepolished, slightly grey glass.  . Cannot compare it with yours since work laptop disables hosting sites. Will have another look on wifes laptop tonight

Will put up a picture when I have the chance


Martin


Offline tropdevin

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Re: ID Help - Scottish weight
« Reply #9 on: December 13, 2007, 02:16:42 PM »
Martin

Catherine Rae did say to me she thought there might have been two or three of these! But what a coincidence.

Alan
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The comments in this posting reflect the opinion of the author, Alan Thornton, and not that of the owners, administrators or moderators of this board. Comments are copyright Alan Thornton. Please feel free to contact me direct if you do not agree with my comments and do not wish to make your concerns known by posting in this thread.
 http://www.pwts.co.uk

 

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