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Author Topic: Bohemian? Vase ID Pse - Signed H. Ales & JP 44  (Read 2113 times)

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Offline 18thCGlass

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Bohemian? Vase ID Pse - Signed H. Ales & JP 44
« on: January 20, 2008, 01:36:04 PM »
Hi. Thanks for looking at this topic. I'm struggling to ID a vase I bought recently. My thoughts are that it is roughly Art Deco period; say 1920-40 and most probably Bohemian; though the base reminds me of some Orrefors of that period. It's just over 7 1/4" high and just over 5 1/4" outer diameter, the sides to the bowl are 1/2" thick. Though I expect the vase was moulded initially; the whole vase except for the matt area to the front is cut and polished to a high standard. I can see tool marks in places below the matt area and therefore would think the matt area was contoured in some way prior to some form of corroso technique. There are no wheel marks to the figural work and therefore I assume acid etched. The vase is heavy @ 4lb 14oz and has a large polished pontil area to the base. To the bottom right of the figural work is a signature 'Ales' and to the side base on one facet is etched 'H.Ales' and 'J.P 44.' with a slash over the 44. My thoughts are that H.Ales was perhaps the designer or etcher and that perhaps JP is the producer. 44 may well be the date (1944) or the slash over the number may indicate a limited edition (and the number over the slash was omitted?). This one has me stumped and I would appreciate input anyone might have. Thanks in advance. Trev.

6 general pics: http://www.trocadero.com/cotswoldantiques/items/735121/item735121.html
2 further pics showing signatures: http://www.trocadero.com/cotswoldantiques/items/735124/item735124.html

Note: I've used my website for pic hosting only. It's a hidden listing. The vase is nfs. I bought it for me! ;D



Offline Andy

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Re: Bohemian? Vase ID Pse - Signed H. Ales & JP 44
« Reply #1 on: January 20, 2008, 05:23:07 PM »
Hi Trev,
great vase :hiclp:

just a thought, Czech artist Mikolas Ales (1852-1913)
http://www.mikolasales.org/
Possibly an etching of one of his paintings?? Have a look through the above website,
there are examples of his signature on the bottom rightof the drawings, looks similar!
it may be a start :D
Regards Andy

In fact just looking at some more, i think its definitely Signature :D What do you think?
"Born to lose, Live to win." Ian (Lemmy) Kilmister Motorhead (1945-????)


Offline 18thCGlass

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Re: Bohemian? Vase ID Pse - Signed H. Ales & JP 44
« Reply #2 on: January 20, 2008, 06:18:05 PM »
Great lead Andy; TY ;D I'm old glass and therefore old school and use Bohemian instead of Czech :ac1: But; absolutely great lead. I'm so grateful. I'd exhausted my glass library and the local public resources; and try typing in 'Ale's' into a search engine and see how many references you get to Georgian ale glasses! ;D (which hopefully I have some knowledge of) ..... I now have an avenue to investigate ....... great. TY so much. It would appear I may be out somewhat on my appraisal of date? Anyway ..... I'll now dig around a little bit. If anyone or perhaps you Andy have anything more to add ... well ... you know I would appreciate it. Thanks again so much ;D Ciao 4 now. Trev.


Offline Andy

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Re: Bohemian? Vase ID Pse - Signed H. Ales & JP 44
« Reply #3 on: January 20, 2008, 10:00:26 PM »
Hi Trev,
I dont think i can add much, obviously if its M Ales signature on the base, then the date must be
earlier, there are a number of Bohemian glass experts on this board, maybe they will have a clue
to the J.P 44
In the book Czech Glass 1945-1980 Design in an age of Adversity, there are similar examples,interestingly
around 1944, some by Karel Hrodek, engraved below the decoration HK 44!
There are quite a few names in the book with initials J P, and also P J.

I think we need Marcus to pop in and have a look  :D  (im a bit out of my depth!)
http://sklounion.com/   (i believe i read he is away at the moment)

I will keep looking for clues until then,
Cheers Andy
 8)

ps, Trev, i have a few old bits of glass i need help with , so hopefully you can return the favour ;D
"Born to lose, Live to win." Ian (Lemmy) Kilmister Motorhead (1945-????)


Offline David E

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Re: Bohemian? Vase ID Pse - Signed H. Ales & JP 44
« Reply #4 on: January 21, 2008, 08:54:36 AM »
Marcus should be back now, but is probably buried under glass and paper ATM ;)
David
► The Curious History of the Bulb Vase ◄
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Offline 18thCGlass

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Re: Bohemian? Vase ID Pse - Signed H. Ales & JP 44
« Reply #5 on: January 21, 2008, 09:51:57 AM »
Andy

Thanks for your further info. I think we (you ;D) have now confirmed the regional origin. Unfortunately I don't have the book you refer to; however I do now have a base line to work from and there are various avenues for me now to explore. Though the astragal panels to the main body suggest Victorian Gothic influences the vase generally has a later 'feel' with basal wear etc in line with a piece produced in the 1940's; so I would think the etching is 'after' Ales and the signature not his. Having looked at the signature again btw; the 'H' I initially mentioned may well be a badly formed 'M'. Anyway; lots to think about and a way to go yet! Thanks for your continued help with this Andy. I do appreciate it and yes; I'd be delighted to offer what help I can to you or anyone else on this board with any old glass that falls within my expertise.

Thanks David on the Marcus update. I hope that he can add to this thread when he's less busy.

Thanks to all for taking the trouble to look at this for me.

Cheers. Trev.


Offline Lustrousstone

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Re: Bohemian? Vase ID Pse - Signed H. Ales & JP 44
« Reply #6 on: January 21, 2008, 12:15:18 PM »
Basal wear is not always an indicator of age, something like this may have been kept in a cabinet and rarely moved


Offline David E

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Re: Bohemian? Vase ID Pse - Signed H. Ales & JP 44
« Reply #7 on: January 21, 2008, 12:26:00 PM »
Hmm, I didn't know 'basal' was a word relating to base - thanks for that!

Update on Marcus - he is in the UK now, and flies back to France from the UK tomorrow.
David
► The Curious History of the Bulb Vase ◄
 A new book by Patricia Coccoris

Contact ► Cortex Design ◄ to order any book


Offline 18thCGlass

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Re: Bohemian? Vase ID Pse - Signed H. Ales & JP 44
« Reply #8 on: January 21, 2008, 01:41:52 PM »
Good point Lustrousstone. Of course wear is all relative to item type; use, weight, age and material. I've had lightweight 17th century drinking glasses made from soda glass (harder than lead) that show minimal wear and suggest a later date and conversely much later glass items that look like they've been dragged behind a car on a rope! All relative and a moot point perhaps; the vase may well have had a sheltered life.

Drinking glass jargon David; usually in relation to knops on stems, but also in common usage with other items. i.e. Basal gadrooning to the bowl of a tankard.  Basal = at the base. Medial = in the middle. Shoulder = at the top (funny another ***'al' term isn't in common usage?) :huh:

Thanks for your input guys. I wouldn't want to bother Marcus as he is obviously busy jetting around. No rush on this anyway; a project ;D

Cheers. Trev.


Sklounion

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Re: Bohemian? Vase ID Pse - Signed H. Ales & JP 44
« Reply #9 on: January 22, 2008, 06:21:30 AM »
Hi,
I have looked at the images of this vase. It is quality, with the image drawn from a work by Mikulas Ales. You do not indicate whether this is lead crystal? Certainly I can think of two engravers who might have worked on this item, but sadly I have no career dates for them. I suspect I know which factory to approach for confirmation, but at this moment Pb or not Pb, that is the question,,,,
Regards,
Marcus

 

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