Author Topic: Large Hanging-sided Pink Bowl  (Read 2973 times)

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Offline ckscot

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Re: Large Hanging-sided Pink Bowl
« Reply #10 on: February 18, 2008, 05:12:52 PM »
Oh good!  I look forward to that.  'Blocks' sounds so much more descriptive anyway.
Iain


Offline Bernard C

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Re: Large Hanging-sided Pink Bowl
« Reply #11 on: February 18, 2008, 06:14:09 PM »
Quote from: ckscot
... By the way Bernard, you sound like the very person to also explain why they are called f***s!!

Iain — No, not me.   Christine was almost on the right lines.   See here and follow the links for more.

As you will have surmised, I don't use the dreaded f-word, at least not in polite company.

Bernard C.  8)
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Offline ckscot

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Re: Large Hanging-sided Pink Bowl
« Reply #12 on: February 18, 2008, 08:50:49 PM »
I see the F word has spawned (sorry) an awful lot of comment on this board before now.  ::)
I can understand, Bernard, why you wouldn't use it in polite company but it sounds as if the B word is just as indelicate. 
And I am none the wiser about who might have made my lovely piece. Cheers, Iain
Iain


Sklounion

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Re: Large Hanging-sided Pink Bowl
« Reply #13 on: February 18, 2008, 09:25:10 PM »
Interesting discussion in both these threads.... and raises the question as to what exactly the terminology is, and what role it serves.
Here we have an item, which does not appear to have a proper term, a No.1 (Davidson)  or a part number 1634/I (Libochovice) or whatever. We choose to define this item, using terms by which we may recognise what is meant. I agree with Bernard, that to talk of a pelican frog is ridiculous. But having looked at several centrepieces, both two-piece and one-piece, maybe, just maybe, "frog", is a corruption of frock. I ask, as it might be more appropriate, to talk of centrepiece and seperate frock, as arguably, that is what some appear to resemble, or centrepiece with integral frock. However, the OED, does give to the word frog, the definition of a support....for bayonets and swords, and that may be also why these items are so described.
Sadly, too little attention is paid these days, to recording both the coining of terminology,  and its subsequent use, development and corruption, which, were it considered more carefully, would allow us to understand where, and how, certain uses of language derived, and its proper meaning.
jmho,
Marcus


Offline skay

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Re: Large Hanging-sided Pink Bowl
« Reply #14 on: February 18, 2008, 10:42:43 PM »
I, perhaps wrongly, assumed that a frog was called so because it sat half in water?

 :-\

xx


Offline Frank

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Re: Large Hanging-sided Pink Bowl
« Reply #15 on: February 18, 2008, 11:06:58 PM »
Has anyone ever checked to root in OED? Collins 97 define it as any spiked or perforated object used to support plant stems in a flower arrangement, but it gives no source. OED might at least give earliest use perhaps.

Concise OED does give some hints but only perhaps:
• noun 1 a thing used to hold or fasten something. 2 an ornamental coat fastener consisting of a spindle-shaped button and a loop.

  — ORIGIN perhaps a use of FROG1, influenced by Italian forchetta or French fourchette ‘small fork’, because of the shape.
Frank A.
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Sklounion

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Re: Large Hanging-sided Pink Bowl
« Reply #16 on: February 18, 2008, 11:49:47 PM »
Specifically as to its application to the glass item, the term "frog" remains shrouded in mist... like a frog on a lily-pad...
the possible sources are there, but, by whom, why, where and to what, and when, was the term applied?? Those answers are open to every creative solution dreamed of by the human race.....
Regards,
Marcus


Offline Bernard C

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Re: Large Hanging-sided Pink Bowl
« Reply #17 on: February 19, 2008, 06:21:03 AM »
Frank, Marcus et al — Please exercise caution when checking specialist words in major dictionaries.

In December 1993 I wrote to both Chambers and Oxford about what they had as codswallop, and we all know should be coddswallop.   No response then, and no correction since.   This is a word from spoken English, which a dictionary compiler or some other person had collected and recorded without properly checking the spelling.   It should have been provisionally labelled both origin unknown and spelling uncertain until a glass or bottle historian filled in the details.   But it wasn't, and so the error continues, and the longer it continues, apparently the greater the reluctance to correct it.

Marver, as a verb, is absent from my Chambers, and probably from OED.   Yet we happily use it here as a verb, for example:- The opal rods were marvered into the surface.

Just two examples.   I am sure that there are many more.

Bernard C.  8)
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Sklounion

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Re: Large Hanging-sided Pink Bowl
« Reply #18 on: February 19, 2008, 08:32:54 AM »
Hi Bernard,
Marver exists as both noun and verb in the OED, noun for the table on which glass is rolled, verb as the act of rolling glass on said table, date given for first usage 1866, in the Cyclopaedia of Useful Arts, by Tomlinson.
Regards,
Marcus


Offline Frank

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Re: Large Hanging-sided Pink Bowl
« Reply #19 on: February 19, 2008, 09:55:09 AM »
Someone somewhere did put this use into a dictionary and Collins care not about the material but the function. Perhaps it was a term used in the florist industry and occurs somewhere in a catalogue. The uise for a clothes fastening is obvious as those cord loops had the shape of a frog. The term is also used for the depression in bricks and that bears no relationship to the critter.

Anyway I have no time to hunt the source so will leave this subject now, but will keep an eye on updates.
Frank A.
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