Topic: Cut Crystal Flagon Decanter 19th C Stourbridge?

[Andy]

Ive spent a while cleaning this decanter, I dont believe anyone could not love it, even if cut glass is not their favourite! Going through my books, mainly British Glass 1800-1914 and The decanter, by Andy Mconnell, i have discovered its a 'Flagon' Decanter, Pinwheel decoration, and my best guess is Stevens and williams c 1870-1890 . Does anyone agree or disagree?? , im sure Stourbridge must be the answer
Thanks
Andy
ps its 8" tall, 6" wide, starcut base, and appears to be Perfect

[Andy]

Anybody agree this is English, maybe Stevens & Williams?
or any other ideas?
Cheers
Andy

[krsilber]

I wish I could offer some insight on your beautiful piece!  There has been so much cut glass made in central Europe that it's hard to discount that possibility, but I think because of your air trap handle, you are probably safe in considering it and older item.  Do you have a blacklight?  That might possibly "illuminate" the subject (yuk, yuk, bad pun).

I don't see any pinwheels on it, the decoration you call it doesn't seem right.

[Bernard C]

... Stourbridge must be the answer ...

Andy — Why Stourbridge?   To satisfy the demand brought about by middle-class lifestyle rule books like Mrs Beeton, cut decorated decanters were also made in huge quantities in Birmingham, Manchester, London, Tyneside, and, as Kristi has said, in central Europe.

It is extremely difficult identifying patterns.   Many Sowerby patterns (yes, Sowerby made cut glass in significant quantity) are on Glen's CDs, and there is a selection of Percival Vickers patterns in Glass Association Journal No. 2.   British museums (with a handful of refreshing exceptions) have an unstated but effective policy of making access to documentation sources as difficult as possible, so, if you want to check the Stourbridge pattern books, you should organise several days (weekdays only) at the Rakow Research Library, Corning Museum of Glass, New York, where there is free access to the pattern books on microfiche, with an unlimited free hardcopy facility.

One final point.   Always check the tie number (engraved on the stopper and rim or neck of the decanter) for British / Continental "1"s and "7"s.

Bernard C. 

[Bernard C]

... and note that a British tie number does not exclude the possibility of a Continental blank.

Bernard C. 

[krsilber]

"One final point.   Always check the tie number (engraved on the stopper and rim or neck of the decanter) for British / Continental "1"s and "7"s."

Just yesterday I was thinking about posting a question about what you can tell about origin of European glass from different ways of writing numbers and letters!  Will you please explain what you mean?

[Frank]

Neither shape nor design are in the S&W catalogues in the Glass Study which are c1893 and c1910

[Bernard C]

Kristi — In my experience, British tie number "1"s are either a single vertical, or a single vertical on a horizontal base like the first two strokes in a game of hangman;  "7"s are as printed here.

Continental "1"s have a long, downward pointing curved serif, so that the figure looks like a tent just about to topple over in a strong wind from the left;  "7"s have a horizontal cross bar in the middle.

On their own English "7"s and Continental "1"s can be quite similar.

Hybrids come from halfway between Dover and Calais!

Bernard C. 

[Andy]

Hi all,
thanks for looking at this Flagon. A couple of answers.
There are no numbers on the stopper or neck.
Why Stourbridge ? why Pinwheel? Well, digging through a few of my books, it seems a low Flagon
Decanter like this is fairly uncommon. I found a few S & W and Webb Flagon decanters, c1880s,
and i think it was one in particular, in British Glass 1800-1914, Charles Hajdamach, plate 335 page 368
A decanter and stopper cut with pinwheel motif. Stevens & Williams, c 1895
Its very similar, ok, i know its not the same!
Frank , thanks for looking, i will join glass study.com 
Its superbly finished, a polished base, every facet is polished, wonderful stopper, a long air bubble the length of the handle ,the cut spout, its just one of the nicest decanters ive handled, and generally, it was one of those old dirty items, that cleaned up so well, it nearly bought a tear to my eye
If anyone has the above book, (Bernard, im sure you have!) have a look.

Where ever its from, i love it
Andy

[krsilber]

It is definitely a really gorgeous piece!  I don't blame you for loving it, and I know just what you mean about the pleasure of cleaning a dirty piece and finding a gem.

I have no clue who made your decanter, and it makes me curious not only about who made it, but about the whole question of attribution of cut glass in the UK and Europe in general.  In the US it's usually necessary to find the exact pattern in a reference if you want to ID an unsigned piece, and even then it's sometimes sketchy because a lot of patterns were duplicated by multiple makers.  Even the shape of the blank is sometimes useless because there were so many cutting houses that bought blanks from other companies (even if they, too, made glass).

I don't know, but it seems like rich cut glass was made by far fewer companies in the UK, is that safe to say?  There were hundreds in the US during the peak of ABP.

oops, suppertime...