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Author Topic: A Thomas Kidd Compilation  (Read 130 times)

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Offline neilh

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A Thomas Kidd Compilation
« on: February 15, 2017, 07:19:34 PM »
Recently with the help of other collectors I have tried to put together a page detailing the activity of the Holt Town Glass Works in Ancoats, ran by a number of people, but mainly Thomas Kidd and related family members.

I've updated the known and current set of likely attributions for Kidd pieces

https://sites.google.com/site/molwebbhistory/Home/registered-designs/minor-makers-unregistered-pressed-glass

In light of the current mania for inkwells on this board, I'm highlighting the Chinese Gordon commemorative design from the mid 1880s which several collectors think is a Thomas Kidd piece.

We've also had a go at nailing down what animal shapes he may have done. The list from an advert is dogs, cats, fish, and swans. We've got a fair guess on the dogs & cats, but we've yet to see any fish or swans which we could pin to them. If you have any unattributed late 19th century animal shapes, particularly in jet black, which seems to be their favourite colour, please append!

Offline agincourt17

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Re: A Thomas Kidd Compilation
« Reply #1 on: February 15, 2017, 07:46:43 PM »
Thank you, Neil.

Here are some photos of an amber glass General Gordon ink bottle. The owner, Kevin Collins, has given his permission for you to re-use of any of them on your Manchester Glass site should you so wish - with due credit, of course.

Fred.

Offline Paul S.

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Re: A Thomas Kidd Compilation
« Reply #2 on: February 19, 2017, 06:54:18 PM »
the first item listed as 'related to Kidd', under Neil's above link to his Mol/Webb reference site, is Reg. 235690 dated 3rd November 1869, allocated to A. Kenyon of Manchester.
Should it be of interest attached is a copy of the original factory drawing for a 'very simple vase design'  -  a plain baluster shape, of what size we will probably never know  -  if of no interest, it can be deleted, of course. :)

the following Reg., in Neil's link, No. 302912 from 26th August 1876 for Joseph Kidd, for a lamp chimney, regret I don't presently have.

Offline neilh

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Re: A Thomas Kidd Compilation
« Reply #3 on: February 19, 2017, 07:17:55 PM »
Hi Paul, I do have the Joseph Kidd one, I just haven't figured out how to do watermarking on my paint program :-)

Actually it looks almost the same as the Kenyon piece.

What's more curious is that we think Joseph Kidd was secretary at Percival Vickers at the time of the registration, though it was just around the time the Kidds were taking over the Holt Town works, can't be sure. Which reminds me, if you are going back to the National Archives soon, there's a similar situation that I missed previously when collecting the Manchester registrations.

David Wilkinson was secretary at Percival Vickers in the 1840s before joining Molineaux Webb in the next decade. It appears he made two registrations in 1849 which would be interesting to see for early pressed glass fans

http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/results/r?_p=1800&_q=BT+glass+wilkinson

58852
61373

Offline Paul S.

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Re: A Thomas Kidd Compilation
« Reply #4 on: February 19, 2017, 10:26:15 PM »
regret I'm ignorant of your 'paint programme' Neil  -  several years back Bernard Cavelot posted a link for what is a fairly simple watermarking programme, which I've used ever since, and it works o.k. with my Picasa editing and IrfanView - I suspect his link is still in the Board's archive if you do a search ................  anyway here are the two Registrations you requested.                  There aren't many pix - from 1842 to early 1884 that I don't now have on my own personal archive.

Descriptions for these two vary a little, between the Register and the text you see on the original factory drawings, as follows...........

Register for 58852 says........ "Double Square Pillar'd Sugar Basin"  -  as opposed to 'Double Square Pillar'd Caddy Basin' on the drawing.

Register for 61373 says........ "Butter Dish"          -        factory drawing says......   'Bamboo Butter.'

I shall in fact be at Kew this Tuesday.


Offline Anne

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Re: A Thomas Kidd Compilation
« Reply #5 on: February 20, 2017, 05:10:33 AM »
Link to Bernard's original how to do the watermark post: http://www.glassmessages.com/index.php/topic,45299.msg253589.html#msg253589

Offline Paul S.

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Re: A Thomas Kidd Compilation
« Reply #6 on: February 20, 2017, 09:09:38 AM »
thanks Anne.                Some of these threads regarding British pressed glass have a habit of rambling and diverting along the way to unrelated manufacturers and/or Registrations  - perhaps unavoidable and maybe we can't do much about it  -  just the way our discussions evolve.         
It won't prevent something being found when using the Board's 'search' facility, provided the correct details are entered - so in theory not a problem.............   it's just that occasionally I think of our dictum that individual threads should stick to a single subject.

All a roundabout way of saying that if these two David Wilkinson items would be better if split into their own thread then leave it to you to decide.        Suspect it probably doesn't really matter though.

Watermarking is a bore..............   it's tedious and time consuming, although I can now whistle through them fairly quickly.       When I started using the programme, Bernard criticized me for making the watermark too obvious, so I try to keep the presence of the wording reasonably unobtrusive  -  if people think I'm still making the words too dark or the font size to large, say so, and I'll knock then back a notch or to in strength and size.
Regret it appears I can do nothing about the loss of some sharpness of image details which occurs in the process  -  or if there is a way of avoiding this then sorry to say I'm not clever enough to know how to avoid it. 
It would be interesting to have others try the programme that Anne has linked  -  download and try a little experimenting and see what sort of results you get, couldn't be any worse than mine.   .............   it's interesting and does help with learning a little more of how these things work.             As I've said, you can still use Picasa and IrfanView with Bernard's particular version of Watermarking  -  the Picasa editing is almost essential with some of the Kew images, which benefit enormously from improvement in contrast etc.

Offline agincourt17

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Re: A Thomas Kidd Compilation
« Reply #7 on: February 20, 2017, 10:36:44 AM »
Thank you for showing these 'divergent' design representations, Paul. I will add them to the GMB RD database in due  course.

Fred.

Offline neilh

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Re: A Thomas Kidd Compilation
« Reply #8 on: February 20, 2017, 06:56:33 PM »
Thanks Paul, the 1849 caddy looks quite like one PV registered in 1848, neither of the two appear in the 1881 catalog, though not a surprise as I think this shape of object had gone out of fashion by then. Bit more surprised the butter didn't make it to the 1881 catalog either, as a few from this era just creep in. Very interesting to see these.

Apologies for diverting my own thread, still interested in any Thomas Kidd possibles you may come across, someone must have a 19th century jet black (or other) fish... swan... out there somewhere...

Offline Paul S.

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Re: A Thomas Kidd Compilation
« Reply #9 on: February 20, 2017, 07:31:41 PM »
looking again at the separate and slightly different text descriptions for Rd. 58852  -  'sugar basin' and 'caddy basin', the intended end use seemed a bit ambiguous.
I always think of caddies as being for tea mixing, and a sugar basin has an obvious intended use, although the shape is very much in the style of a C19 tea mixing bowl, which would fit into a tea poy or caddy - straight sides.
The container could be used for either, but having collected a number of tea mixing bowls over the years, the shape of this one certainly made me think of tea rather than sugar, as C19 examples of the latter tend to have rounded bowls and often have a stemmed undercarriage.  ;D

 

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