Author Topic: Perthshire weights ID  (Read 2918 times)

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Offline david31162

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Perthshire weights ID
« on: July 26, 2005, 01:48:51 PM »
Can anyone help me identify the age , name(PP) of these weights. I have looked at many sites to trace the identity of these 2 Perthshire weights but can find nothing exactly the same. Lots of highly priced slightly  similar millefiori weights though. What is it that makes some of them better- rarity and quality i'm sure -but how do you tell?
I paid £60 for the pair, is that about right?
They seem to be of good quality when compared to the large Murano weight i have also included here.
Perthshire 1
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v210/david-dj/weights/paperweights0011.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v210/david-dj/weights/paperweights0015.jpg
Perthshire 2
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v210/david-dj/weights/paperweights0004.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v210/david-dj/weights/paperweights0007.jpg
Large Murano weight
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v210/david-dj/weights/paperweights0001.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v210/david-dj/weights/paperweights0003.jpg
Thank you
David


Anonymous

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Perthshire weights ID
« Reply #1 on: July 26, 2005, 02:38:20 PM »
Hi David

Somewhat frustrating as I dont seem to remember where I have seen displays of Perthshires with their appropriate numbers....I thought it was KevH's site but apparently not...unless I've missed the obvious. The first one I know is a very common pattern and although I havent seen the 2nd one this is irrelevant as I have not studied these. However looking at the 2nd I think you'll find that again it is a general issue.... doubtless would have been marked otherwise if it was limited etc. As far as the£ 60 goes I dont know how much on top of that these are worth but as a stand alone price I think that was a good price....Apart from a couple of small Perthshires there are not that many that come in at under £30.
Regarding quality I totally agree and in some respects feel that some of the high quality ones are under-rated in their field.....funds dependant, a good time for investment.
Re the PP numbers doubtless someone will advise you shortly.


Regards


Gareth


Morgan48


Offline Leni

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Perthshire weights ID
« Reply #2 on: July 26, 2005, 04:39:21 PM »
:shock:  I was really surprised at the second weight, David!  I wouldn't have thought it was a Pershire!  The canes look quite like some Murano ones to me.  I'm such a beginner at this  :roll:  Does it have a P cane somewhere, or a label?  Mind you, I have two Perthshire weights, neither of which has a P cane or a label, so .....  :oops:  

I would reckon £60 to be about the right price to pay for the two, but I'm not sure about the concept of an 'investment'  :?  How long would you expect to have to keep them in order to turn a reasonable profit on your investment, Gareth?  

I, too, am wracking my brains to remember where I've seen the Perthshire numbers!  Hopefully someone will come along in a minute and put us out of our misery   :wink:   :lol:

Leni
Leni


Anonymous

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Perthshire weights ID
« Reply #3 on: July 26, 2005, 05:17:58 PM »
Quote from: "Leni"
:
I would reckon £60 to be about the right price to pay for the two, but I'm not sure about the concept of an 'investment'  :?  How long would you expect to have to keep them in order to turn a reasonable profit on your investment, Gareth?  


Leni


Hi Leni

I think that with some judicious purchasing of the top end Perthshire weights possibly 5 to 10 years. I appreciate that you could say the same about many items if they are relatively cheap but it seems to me that these can be had for very reasonable prices when compared for example with a good quality (pre Caithness) Whitefriars or indeed with limited edition  Caithness .... and the latter in my opinion are not of equivalent quality. I suppose I tend to trust in the adage that quality will prevail over popularity..... and I would stress that it is a personal opinion.
I am surprised that you feel the canes in the 2nd weight are more like Murano than Perthshire.... doubtless we will be advised shortly.

Regards


Gareth


Anonymous

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Perthshire weights ID
« Reply #4 on: July 26, 2005, 08:16:56 PM »
Thanks for your thoughts so far. It is the second weight that I thought was the more unusual, it has much finer central canes and  the red ground shows through between the twisted canes and looks a little like felt. It also has a P in the centre.
David


Offline Leni

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Perthshire weights ID
« Reply #5 on: July 26, 2005, 08:35:26 PM »
Quote from: "Anonymous"
It is the second weight that I thought was the more unusual. It also has a P in the centre.
David

 :shock:  Wow!  Just goes to show how much I've still got to learn!   :shock:  :oops:

Must get myself a book on Perthshire weights  :roll:  

Leni
Leni


Anonymous

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Perthshire weights ID
« Reply #6 on: July 26, 2005, 09:47:34 PM »
Quote from: "Leni"
Quote from: "Anonymous"
It is the second weight that I thought was the more unusual. It also has a P in the centre.
David

 :shock:  Wow!  Just goes to show how much I've still got to learn!   :shock:  :oops:

Must get myself a book on Perthshire weights  :roll:  

Leni



Hi Leni

You might find one here plus many other books on paperweights.... and a very good selection of weights. A very good honest dealer too.
 http://www.sweetbriar.co.uk/books_new.htm


Regards


Gareth


Offline KevinH

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Perthshire weights ID
« Reply #7 on: July 26, 2005, 09:58:03 PM »
Hi folks,

I can confirm that the PP numbers are not in my web pages. I have only a few examples of Perthshire Paperweights and for identification I rely mainly on the book: The Complete Guide to Perthshire Paperweights, by Colin & Debbie Mahoney and Gary & Marge McClanahan, published 1997.

A new book along similar lines is expected soon (?) covering the years from 1998 to the closure of the company in January 2002.

--------------

David's two weights are interesting because they illustrate a couple of the problems in identifying PP designs. Both are General Range weights made from 1968/9 to at least 1997, but the inclusion of a P cane dates them from 1978.

The first is a PP2 and should therefore be a "medium" size (approx 2 1/2 inch diameter) and have a hollow ground base. There was also a PP59 design, first made in 1983, which was identical to the PP2 except for having a top facet. The different design number for a particular PP pattern seems to be a standard thing when the difference is the addition of faceting.

So, we should be able to find a specific design number for the second weight with its top facet but with a millefiori pattern the same as another PP number.

Hmmm ... The millefiori pattern of this second weight is definitely a PP62, made 1983 to at least 1997. The weight should therefore be "large" (approx 3 inch diameter). However, the design details in the book say it has sixteen radial twists but David's example has only thirteen twists. And the book has no mention of faceting and there is no other illustrated design that fits this pattern. So this top-faceted version with 13 twists seems to be an oddity.

It is true that for some designs the actual production pattern did vary on occasion and perhaps David's version is just one example of a variation that was not noted during preparation of the book (which I believe was based primarily on the company records as far as they were available). Another possibility is that a top-faceted version of the PP62 was produced after 1997 and will be shown in the expected new book.

Simple, isn't it? Nope, nothing's ever simple, even with a "Complete Guide" book to hand  :roll:
KevinH


Offline david31162

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Perthshire weights ID
« Reply #8 on: July 26, 2005, 09:58:18 PM »
Thanks Gareth that is where ive just been looking. I think ive seen one like my second picture ( PP62).
In case anyone else is looking the following sites seem to be agood sources of reference too -
www.libertys.com
www.ladymarion.co.uk
and
www.great-glass.co.uk/ library/lib9a.htm


Offline david31162

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Thanks KevH
« Reply #9 on: July 26, 2005, 11:32:06 PM »
Thanks KevH, looks like we posted at the same time with the similar ideas about my second weight. Thanks also for all the additional information, Ill have to invest in some books on the subject.
David

 

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