Author Topic: Need Help with this lovely antique Paperweight  (Read 5732 times)

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Nadine

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Need Help with this lovely antique Paperweight
« on: August 05, 2005, 08:49:45 AM »
Hello,
it´s me again :D

I´ve bought a new Paperweight from an antique dealer here in Germany and don´t know wich maker did made it.
In all my books I´ve studied I did´nt find a Solution. I think it will be a early Bohemian piece (probably Josephinen Glassworks) but a friend of mine thinks it would be an early St.Louis Piece or a so called "early Clichy".

What is the Opinion of the experts here ?

Here are the pictures:

http://web888.can13.de/webbrowser/conmille/index.html

Thanks in Advance for your help and have a nice weekend  :D

Many greetings
Nadine


Nadine

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Need Help with this lovely antique Paperweight
« Reply #1 on: August 05, 2005, 09:09:53 AM »
P.S. Sorry for the poor photos, it was a rainy day, when I took them and I had no good light for better ones.

The Glass of the Paperweight is clear without any grey or yellow shadows in it.

The base has a  big basal rim and in the middle she is more then only concave, she´s  round like a ball you cut in the middle. Hope you know, what I mean :D

The Paperweight measures 6,5cm in dia. and it is 3,5cm high. The weight is 282gr. Probably that helps.

Nadine


Offline Leni

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Need Help with this lovely antique Paperweight
« Reply #2 on: August 05, 2005, 10:33:16 AM »
Nadine, this paperweight has been driving me mad!   :x  :?  :roll: But most enjoyably  :wink:

Initially I would have said it had a Clichy type profile, but not Clichy type colours! I was beginning to think it might indeed be more like St Louis colours, then you posted the details of the light affecting the glass colour, the size (quite a miniature) and the fact that the base is quite deeply concave and I wracked my brains again   :?  

I looked through all my books, too, and I think the only thing to do is wait for the experts to come along and see this thread!    :shock:

Personally, I would be inclined to say Bohemian, possibly Riesengebirge.  However, I am quite prepared to be 'shot down in flames' when Kevin comes along!  :lol:  :roll:

Anyway, it's a really super weight and I envy you!  :D

Leni
Leni


Offline Leni

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Need Help with this lovely antique Paperweight
« Reply #3 on: August 05, 2005, 10:40:44 AM »
No, I just 'tweaked' your photos a little and now I'm back to thinking it's a Clichy  :shock:

HELP!   :roll:  :wink:

Leni
Leni


Anonymous

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Need Help with this lovely antique Paperweight
« Reply #4 on: August 05, 2005, 10:46:15 AM »
Hi Nadine

The photographs are fine from the viewpoint of the individual canes.
Having looked through various books I think you're quite correct ...it becomes less clear rather than the expected clarification.
Looking at the profile it would, in the context of the French weights, steer more towards Baccarat than Clichy. The reference book I used shows Baccarat as having the sqattest profile of the the 3 main French makers of the period..... and the curve as it bends towards the base is more pronounced. They also seem to be the only ones I could find that produced canes of the variety iin photo 6 that are an orange star with a central blue star cane. The Clichy canes that I have access to appear more complex in their structure...although this may have changed when Baccarat we re-introduced in the 20th century....... I am comparing these considering that yours is a 19th C example......however the number of examples I can compare with is very limited and so far this is nothing more than a direction I have been led into and in iteslf inconclusive.
The few Bohemian ones I looked at didnt quite seem to match the cane strutures at all....just didn't feel right.
Someone should be along soon to give you a definitive attribution and blow my observations out of the water..... and then we''ll both know...and why.

Regards

Gareth


Morgan48


Anonymous

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Need Help with this lovely antique Paperweight
« Reply #5 on: August 05, 2005, 11:00:14 AM »
Thanks for your fast answers, Leni & Gareth

On Bob Hall´s Homepage are some weights from the Josephinen Glassworks, in which some canes are look similar to the ones in this weight.  But this kind of Base I never see before on Bohemian Paperweights. Also one other of my Bohemian weights has more a little yellow shadow in it.
In the Book from George N.  Kulles (Identifying Antique Glass Paperweights, The Less Familiar) in the chapter about the Questionable Early Clichy, there are also some canes wich looks a little bit like the ones in this piece.

Last, I have an early St. Louis weight, which canes a nearly the same, like the green ones in the outer ring of my new Paperweight. Probably they where made from Domenico Bussolin, who sold his canes to french and bohemian Companys, like Sybille Jargstdorf told in her book.
But, like Gareth told, the canes with the bundle of Stars look similar to the ones, wich Baccarat used in there early weights.  


Here are some better photos, which I took today. You can see now better which color the glass had, altough, when the light cames from the side there is a light grey shadow in it.

http://web888.can13.de/webbrowser/weight2/index.html

Looking forward to hear the Opinion from other experts :-)

Many greetings from Germany

Nadine


Offline Leni

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Need Help with this lovely antique Paperweight
« Reply #6 on: August 05, 2005, 12:00:46 PM »
Hi again Nadine,

I have also been reading my Jargstorf  :lol: although I haven't got the Kulles  :(

Don't forget that Jargstorf also says a lot of people copied Bussolin canes, as well as using some he may have sold or given them.  Also, I would have said the canes in your weight are more simple, being of fairly basic complexity and made up almost entirely of six-point star canes, with only the green outer ones (and possibly the dark blue ones? I can't quite see) being set in pastry-mould shapes.  Am I right?

Gareth, your post made me go back and look at Baccarat again, and I can see what you mean!  I'm now totally confused!  :shock:

Nadine, can you post a picture of the weight in profile, so we can see the exact position of the motif in the dome?  And are you able to tell if the dome has been ground down to remove scratches or bruises in the past, and if so, are you able to tell roughly by how much?  

Also, something about the almost browny-red colour is ringing bells with me, but I'm not sure exactly what it means yet ....  :?

Leni
Leni


Anonymous

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Need Help with this lovely antique Paperweight
« Reply #7 on: August 05, 2005, 12:23:14 PM »
Hi Nadine

Nothing to get you going better than a "whodunnit"..... not only that but its raining buckets outside. :roll:  :wink:
I have isolated one of the canes which seems quite distinctive and I'll see if I can locate it anywhere else. The problem with looking at all of them is that my myopic brain becomes more scrambled than the weight.
Hopefully will be back later
http://tinypic.com/a12681.jpg

regards


gareth


Morgan48


Nadine

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Need Help with this lovely antique Paperweight
« Reply #8 on: August 05, 2005, 12:28:04 PM »
Thanks again, Leni,

here are some new photos:

http://web888.can13.de/webbrowser/weight3/index.html

In my oppionin the weight is not repolished yet, as there is some heavy wear on the base and also many scratches on the surface.

I think the canes with the blue stars and the green ones  aren´t made in Pastry-Mold Shapes, but the Canes in the second ring (counting from the center-cane) are definitely Pastry-Mold Shapes, with red, opaque Glass on it.

A friend of mine, who visited me 10 minutes ago, mentioned to see the green canes in some scrambled weights from clichy, but I don´t know if he is right.

Like you, I´m also totally confused. :?

Nadine


Nadine

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Need Help with this lovely antique Paperweight
« Reply #9 on: August 05, 2005, 12:30:09 PM »
Thank you also Gareth,

your picture is perfect to see all the details on the canes, hopefully you or some from the others will know or find this canes in another paperweight and can help us :D

Nadine

 

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