Topic: Need Help with this lovely antique Paperweight

[Anonymous]

Hi Nadine

A couple of extra things I have come across which may be relevant but most probably not.
I was looking at some 1930's Baccarat Dupont weights and noticed how much simpler and in some ways of lesser quality than the mid 19thc and much later 20thc ones.
Also I hadn't realised until today the very short period in which the areas of Bohemia and Silesia made paperweights similar to the first French examples... sometime between 1840 and 1855. It was pointed out that these had a distinctive grey tone to the glass whereas the French tended to be either bright white or blue/white. Also the Bohemian/Silesian ones were apparently much lighter although the same size as the French.
You said you had an early French one so perhaps you can weigh them and see how they compare.
After all of this it will probably turn out o be none of these.... which is why it really is a subject for an expert with many examples to be able to compare.

Anyway Nadine...many thanks for posting this thread as it turned out to be most fascinating and already I've learnt something else.


Regards


Gareth


Morgan

[Nadine]

Hi Gareth,

here are some pictures  of an early bohemian weight, I´ve sold on ebay some weeks ago:

http://web888.can13.de/webbrowser/bohemian/index.html

It has Canes from Domenico Bussolin, which where used by Riedel located in Polaun and also by St. Louis.
As you can see, the grey tone is much deeper and not only a light grey like in my new one, and it seems there is also a little yellow shadow (probably thats from the torsade on the ground). Also the Canes are not so fine, not so complex and also not arranged with such a precision like on the other one. And there are much more air bubbles in it. The new one has nearly no kind of bubbles in it. The Base on the other one was absolutely flat.

I have compared the weights of this two paperweights, and the new one weights much more. The early Baccarat had a higher dome and weights a little bit more.

So, from this point to see, it could be a  more a French one then a Bohemian.

Please excuse my bad englich, I´m still learning

Nadine

[Anonymous]

Hi Nadine

The new photograph is much more what I thought Bohemaian weights were like... and exactly as you say with not much quality either in the canes, with some distorted, and just the overall design. The torsade gives the illusion that there is more happening than there really is.... Also unless its only on the photograph the surface of this one looks really quite rippled... and not something you would expect of a weight that had a good polished finish to it.
The interesting point was you mentioned the base being flat...whereas the other one is concave.... this is probably quite important regarding the identity of it but I have no references at all to the different finishes of the bases. So, as you say,. it looks like we are back across the border into France.
Your English is fine... and certainly better than too many "English" people here.


Regards


Gareth


Morgan48

[Nadine]

Hi Gareth,

in the book „Classic French Paperweights” from Edith Mannoni I found a interesting Detail, which probably brings us closer to the maker of my new weight.
On Page 3 is a photo of an antique St. Louis Jelly Dish, which has a small paperweight as its base. In the outer ring it has canes, who look similar to the red-star canes with the blue star in it, you can see on my paperweight, also in the outer ring. But as my canes have 7 red stars, this one has 10. But they really look very equal. I send a photo of this one tomorrow, so you can see for yourself, what I mean.

The funny thing is, that I have a weight in my mind, which I see some months ago, which reminds me very much on my one, but I don´t know what kind it is. Everytime I look on the paperweight, my mind would tell me what it is, but my mouth wouldn´t tell it … It´s hard to explain, hope you understand it. It´s like the feeling, that Leni had, some posts above (ringing bells)

At the moment I think it will be an early clichy weight or a St. Louis Piece, but I don´t know which of this manufacturs used to make such a concav base on its weights, altough it probably could be a prototype or experimental weight.

I´m still searching for a thing, that will be a proof for one maker, so that we all can be sure, who had made this beatiful piece.

Perhaps I´ll get some more informations when I look at other books from my friend, tomorrow. I´ll let you know

At least thanks for your compliment, regarding my english. I know, its not the best. I always know, what I want to say and also I understand english very well and can read it very fast, but the main problem I have is the different grammar, as the german Language is very difficult, when you try to put english sentences in the right way together.

Have a nice weekend, I´ll post more regarding the weight, tomorrow. Hopefully some of the other experts also have an opinion, which kind of weight is it.

Kind regards
Nadine

[Leni]

Nadine, please note that many of our experts will be in Scotland this weekend for the Ysart Glass Conference, so don't expect them to see this thread until the beginning of next week!  

I am still thinking about your paperweight a lot, and searching the books I have again and again - I wish my George Kulles book would arive!  I ordered it ages ago, but it is still on its way from America!  You say you have the Kulles 'Less Familiar' book.  Do you have the 'Millefiori' book?  That's the one I'm waiting for!   :x

I am still puzzled about the position of the motif in your weight  :?  It looks a bit like a Clichy profile, but the dome is too low and the motif seems too high in it.  Are you sure it hasn't been ground down in the past?  I have a little St Mande which has a similar profile, but the motif is not so high in the dome.  Can you get a picture that is really totally side-on?  

I am also still thinking about that red colour!  It really looks quite orangey.  I just can't think where I've seen it before!   :x  And could you post a picture of your St Louis with the canes you think are similar to the green ones?  

I'm enjoying this immensely!  I shall be quite disappointed if Kevin comes along and says, "Oh, it's clearly a ....." and stops all the fun  :wink:  :lol:

Oh, and as Gareth has said, your English really is superb!   :shock:  

Leni

[Nadine]

Hi Leni,

thanks for your Message,

here are some new photos:

http://web888.can13.de/webbrowser/weight4/index.html

#1+2 Profile, hope this ones are a little bit better
#3 The Base with the big basal Rim and the conkave middle
#4 The Paperweight together with an St. Louis Jasper to see, that the green canes are similar to the ones in the first ring of the St. Louis
#5 The Paperweight together with an Clichy Scramble to compare the green tone of the canes, wich is nearly the same.
#6+7 Pictures from the St. Louis Jelly Dish, I posted yesterday to see, that the star canes nearly identical. (Sorry for the poor Photos, it´s a high glossy picture and my cam couldn´t get it sharper)

If I find more interessting matches, I will post them also.


I can not total be sure, that the weight is not repolished yet, as it is about 150 years old and I have it since 4 days, but I thougt with this scratches on the surface and the wear to the base it isn´t repolished yet, but I don’t know it. Probably it was also the base of an Dish or Inkwell, I don´t think that, but perhaps somebody has seen an item, which looks also similar or has identical canes in it, like the other St. Louis Jelly Dish.

Yes, I have the Millefiori Book from Kulles also and the Lampwork, too. But unfortunately it helps me not with this weight.

Have a nice Saturday evening.

Many greetings
Nadine

[Anonymous]

I had another thought .....  :shock:

Could it possibly be a New England Glass Company weight?   :?

I don't know much (and can't seem to find anything out  :x ) about their millefiori canes, but I believe they did have very deep concave bases and wide basal rings!  Also, I believe they were sometimes mistaken for 'Bohemian' weights  :shock:

I've looked everywhere I can think and come up with a blank.  

Can you find any info on NEGC canes?    

Leni

[Leni]

Ooops!  That was me, logged out  :oops:

Leni

[Nadine]

Yes, I have some Pictures of NEGC-Canes, here a some pics of 3 NEGC-Scrambled weights from my collection:

http://web888.can13.de/webbrowser/negc/index.html

I did compare them also, but they completely different. Also the Base aren´t concave, its simply firepolished and you still can see the pontil-mark on all 3 weights.
But the Idea was good, Leni, probably it will be a maker we all know, and didn´t know it

Nadine

[Leni]

WOW!  What a collection you must have, Nadine!   I'm very envious!  :shock:

However, I'm a bit concerned about the size of your pictures.  They don't give me a problem, but I know some people who use these boards complain if pictures are too big, as their computers can't cope   :?

Personally, I think you need to see big pics when we're talking about paperweight canes, but I wonder if you should try to reduce the size so as not to cause other users problems trying to look at them  

Re your original weight:  The colour is still trying to tell me something - and I think one thing it is trying to tell me is, definitely NOT Clichy!  

Never mind, I am sure next week Kevin or Ray will be back and will 'put us out of our misery'  :roll:   Only it hasn't been misery, has it?  It's been FUN!    

Leni