Topic: Help! Whitefriars Tangerine bark Efect vase ( Or Fake)

[vidrioguapo]

I recently had to open a SNAD.  It is very simple.  At first you are asked to communicate with the seller (but through the PayPal dispute system), so you write as if you are speaking directly to seller. Probably repeating to him/her what you have already said when dealing with them directly.  They may or may not respond.

If they don't respond, or respond in a negative way and there seems to be no way forward, then you can escalate it to a claim.  PayPal may then ask you to provide proof that the item is not as described.  They usually want it to be assessed by a dealer or auction house with a substantiating letter on a letterhead confirming it is not Whitefriars.  They MAY accept a link reference to this thread, but unlikely.  So you need to know a friendly "professional" who will supply you with this info.   In my case, the item was broken, and so I pre-prepared a letter on the lines of "I have examined this item and confirm it is broken  etc etc"  and asked my local Antique shop to sign it and give me a letterhead or compliments slip.  This then had to be faxed to PayPal.  I got a full refund.

In another case I got my refund in full from the seller before having to escalate it to a PayPal claim.........I think it is worth doing  because the seller doesn't want the hassle or negative feedback,so if they think you are serious then they capitulate.

But this may all seem to much for an item for which you may have paid very little, I don't know, and sometimes you just have to put it down to experience.  Emmi

[Pip]

PayPal may then ask you to provide proof that the item is not as described.  They usually want it to be assessed by a dealer or auction house with a substantiating letter on a letterhead confirming it is not Whitefriars.  They MAY accept a link reference to this thread, but unlikely.  So you need to know a friendly "professional" who will supply you with this info.

I would be happy to do this for you if required Steve. 

One more thing to mention with regard to making PayPal claims - if/when you are required to send the item back make sure you do it by a trackable, signed method because PayPal will require you to be able to prove that the item was actually delivered back to the seller, not just posted.

[Gilead]

Emmi & Pip.
                I thank you both i am going to do as you say was looking into it to day but had to ask my sons girlfriend how to go about it, as i am new to ebay, i have emailed the seller several times and kept all the emails, i gave him chance to sort this out properly even said i would except the money back i paid for it, and carry the cost of postage to me and then back to him but just got rude comments from him.

The item cost me £21 it's not about the money with me, i just expect to be treated how i would treat some one IE polite and fair, over the last ten days i have bought 18 piece's of WF and had no trouble, cant understand why people are like this. but enough of the moaning from me.

Back to buying  and thank you all for the support,


PS this vase weighes  all of 243g or 8.5/8oz and stands 7.1/4inches high 2inch square at rim, and can feel the patten both inside and out few more photos for you to gaze at in wonderment
                                                                   Regards
                                                                    Steve

[Gilead]

Only me again.
                    i have just checked this guys site out again on ebay to see his returns policy and could not find it.

While there i had a look at what other glass he is selling and according to his description he has Flygfors scandinavin freeform glass dish ice blue. by you guessed keldev  if thats so i have two of them.

Also Holmegaard Rllhmaki, ? now i know im no expert and will never be, but how is he sure of these? perhaps it's the same people he told me about in an email, he get opinions from people whom know.

The flygfors is number 320261291484.
                                                  Steve

[Pinkspoons]

Well his 'Flygfors' is from Ikea, his 'Holmegaard' is by Ronnie Stennett-Willson for Wuidart, and his 'Riihimaki' is probably by Hirschberg... maybe Taube.

You can tell that they have no real idea when the only piece of glass they come close to getting right is the labeled Murano vase, and the seller describes it as being made 'by' Murano, as though the island were a single company.

[Pip]

Only me again.
                    i have just checked this guys site out again on ebay to see his returns policy and could not find it.

I wouldn't worry about that unduly - some big business sellers who really should know better state all sorts of nonsense in their returns policies which totally contravene the Distance Selling Regulations.  Basically, if you make a claim against your seller and PayPal find in your favour his returns policy or lack of one will count for nothing.

[johnphilip]

Hi Steve et al a few years back a rogue got hold of a lot of cheap W/Fs ash trays and a load of bud vases had the tops cut off the bud vase and had them made into inkwells with brass fittings if you are ever in the portabello road you will see many of these one of the giveaways is when you flip the top back it will hit the side of the bottle with quite a bang.ps the bud vases were from several manufacturers  ok Bubbles

[Pip]

While there i had a look at what other glass he is selling and according to his description he has Flygfors scandinavin freeform glass dish ice blue. by you guessed keldev  if thats so i have two of them.

Also Holmegaard Rllhmaki, ? now i know im no expert and will never be, but how is he sure of these? perhaps it's the same people he told me about in an email, he get opinions from people whom know.

Steve, I understand you're new to eBay - however sellers like this one are ten a penny - there are thousands of them, ordinary Joes with delusions of being professional dealers.  There's nothing wrong with that of course but they don't do the groundwork, they don't buy the books and they lack the critical eye needed to be able to differentiate between modern mass production and handmade artglass.  There are also a great many business sellers (as this one is judging from the number of items he's sold) who are totally ignorant of the Distance Selling Regulations which state that buyers should have a cooling off period of 14 days during which you can simply change your mind and return the item for a full refund.  The fact that he doesn't state a returns policy also has negative implications from his point of view with regard to the DSR.  These people are 'playing' at being dealers.

I'm sure at some point I've crossed paths with this particular seller - it was probably me contacting him to correct a misattribution but I can't remember for sure and it wasn't in the past year - I am always more than happy to help people like this if I can but, sadly, few take me up on my offer.  I suspect this seller doesn't get help from professionals preferring instead to 'wing it' or, if he does seek help and he's told his alleged Flygsfors is modern Ikea production he ignores it and goes with Flygsfors - we'll never know.  But the point is you'll come across many more sellers who make grand claims about their items, who will 'guarantee 100%' that what they've got is what they're saying it is.  It's down to you as the buyer to be able to read between the lines, to look at their other listings, to ask questions - don't just blindly believe whatever you're told in a sales listing - and always pay by PayPal and that way you're protected in instances like these.  Also ensure that when a seller brushes off your concerns or is rude to you as you've said this person was and attempts to evade their responsibilities that you give him a big fat negative feedback.  If he gets too many negatives or neutrals during a given period he will be suspended from trading under the new rules - which can only be good for the buyers - if he wants to continue selling then he'll have to smarten up his act.

[Leni]

Thanks for the new pics, Steve.  I can see now these are definitely not Whitefriars!  I have however, since you first posted, now seen several of these masquerading as WF!  Does anyone know what they really are? 

Do go through with the SNAD!  Emmi & Pip are extremely knowledgeable and experienced people, and their advice is always sound.  Good luck with the claim!   

[Andy]

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Retro-1960s-Bark-Effect-Cased-Studio-Art-Glass-Vase_W0QQitemZ250258418124QQihZ015QQcategoryZ64877QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

I think i may have seen them, new, in charity shops at some time?