Author Topic: Pressed glass crown jar, RD 183953, Alfred Edmund Edwardes, 14 February 1865.  (Read 4806 times)

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Offline mrvaselineglass

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Re: Unusual blue crown dish with a very strange reg diamond
« Reply #10 on: June 24, 2008, 11:01:58 PM »
Last April (2007), I came across this listing at the KEW in their public search area (but can't find it now).  I did a 'image capture, and have the illustration on my computer.  there were notes under the item: "This design was also registered in Class I - Metal, Class III - Glass, as well as  in this class, Class IV - Earthenwares.  This means that the same design could be used for a variety of objects of the same form, but made from different materials.  Multiple class registration is often used by manufacturers of cosmetic/perfume containers."

This piece was registered as a "class 4, ornamental design for a jar."

I have seen the vaseline glass version that had the diamond lozenge marking on the inside of the dish.  Now, here is the kicker:  I have seen (have the photo SOMEPLACE in my computer!) of an opaque blue version, with a raised marking on the inside of the base, and it said BACCARAT.   So, It looks like the person who registered the design also used it with at least one other manufacturer.  It is not known who pressed the vaseline glass version for ALFRED EDMUND EDWARDES, Alver Cottage, Twickenham Green, Middlesex.  The Catalog ref. for the Image details are: BT 43/68.  The Registration details for No. 183953 is catalog ref. no. BT 44/8.  OH, the official listing at the KEW, shows the last name as EDWARDES with the extra 'E'. 

Hope this helps!
Dave Peterson
aka: Mr. Vaseline Glass


Offline Ivo

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lozenge question
« Reply #11 on: March 08, 2010, 09:59:05 AM »
This rather spectacular inkwell (with a bit of damage on the inside) has a large, prominent Rd. lozenge on the bottom and the date translates to January 14, 1865. However, the class is I not III and so the lozenge finder comes up with no registration for parcel 8 on that date.

So it was not registered as a glass design - is it possible to figure out who made it?



Offline Anne

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Re: lozenge question
« Reply #12 on: March 08, 2010, 10:40:07 AM »
Ivo, I think your 14 January 1865 should be 14 February 1865 which states class III, also classes I & IV, with a parcel number of 8.

It's given as design 183953, proprietor Alfred Edmund Edwardes, Alver Cottage, Twickenham Green, Middlesex. Sadly no clue as to what the design relates to though. The reference is page 101 of Jenny Thompson's The Identification of English Pressed Glass.



Offline Ivo

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Re: lozenge question
« Reply #13 on: March 08, 2010, 11:35:30 AM »
Okay - perfect answer. :hiclp:

There you go:

http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/designregisters/propitemdetail.asp?item_id=183953&proprietor=14&page=1

We have a name, a date and the hunch that Baccarat may have been involved in the production - which does not surprise me seeing the outrageous colour, quality and finish.

If you wish to merge these threads, go ahead.



Offline UKGLASS

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Re: lozenge question
« Reply #14 on: March 08, 2010, 05:40:34 PM »
Hi there
I had this piece about 15 years ago and found the same problem, you are correct that the class is not glass. It is in fact metal.  I had the opportunity to discuss it with Raymond Slack and the concensus of opinion was that it was originally produced in metal as an inkwell & registered as such, for whatever reason a glass manufacturer was then able to reproduce it in glass, alliances between glass and metal manufacturers was of course quite common. Only problem is Im damned if I can remember who the original metal maker was.
UKGLASS
Having read Ivos post i think its fair to say we now know who the metal maker was, certainley never heard of Alfred Edmund Edwardes as a glass maker, still no closer to who produced the glass unfortunately.


Offline KevinH

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Re: lozenge question
« Reply #15 on: March 08, 2010, 10:18:51 PM »
And here's another one shown in one of my non-paperweight web pages.

I thought I had commented about mine in connection with Barbara's (as shown in the GMB link Anne gave above), but clearly not - might have missed it. Having checked mine again, I can see that I misread the date letter in the lozenge as a "C" instead of "G".

I see that Barbara's (same colour as mine) has a large chip on the top which might suggest the loss of the Cross as shown in the National Archives information for design 183953 (as per Ivo's link). I can confirm that my example has a simple point at the domed finial which is part of the mouled shape - much the same as Ivo's. Perhaps the glass versions were not produced with a Cross on top?

Another of these (in opaque pale opalescent green , I think) was shown a few years ago in a Glass Circle / Association exhibition, "From Palace to Parlour", Aug - Oct 2003, at The Wallace Collection, Manchester Square, London. But no maker was stated.

Edited as indicated in bold or strikethroughs.
KevinH


Offline Anne

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Re: Unusual blue crown dish with a very strange reg diamond
« Reply #16 on: March 08, 2010, 11:48:01 PM »
Both topics merged for the sake of completeness.


Offline agincourt17

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It’s been almost 5 years since topic
http://www.glassmessages.com/index.php/topic,1012.0.html
was last aired, and over the course of time Glen’s green uranium crown as discussed in the first post  of the thread has lost its photo (which later morphs into a link from Christine in reply #31).

Mixed in with that topic thread is a mention of “a blue (milk!!) glass cushion pot with a crown as the lid, on the base of the cushion is a Reg Diamond mark for 14 February 1865” (reply #20). This, it transpires, corresponds to a registered design number 183953, registered by Alfred Edmund Edwardes, Alber (or Alver?) Cottage, Twickenham Green, Middlesex, and the design is for a jar.

Tigerchips, in reply #22, kindly provided a link to more details, including the registration representation, online from the National Archives at
http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/designregisters/item.asp?cat_id=0&type_id=0&shape_id=5&item_id=183953 now at
http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/designregisters/propitemdetail.asp?item_id=183953&proprietor=14&backpage=1

In reply #26, Dave Peterson provides a link to what appears to be a similar Edwardes crown, but with BACCARAT market inside the bottom. Inevitably, of course, that ebay link is now dead.

So, to cut to the chase, I have photos of two examples of the Alfred Edmund Edwardes RD 183953 crown (both with the lozenge for 14 February 1865) to post (hopefully staying visible for some time to come).  Each crown has a base measuring about 4 inches square, and stand about 4 inches tall (but, looking at the National Archives representation, both crowns have lost the cross from the top of the crown).

I have posted it separately from the original thread because I think this glass crown jar is sufficiently interesting to merit a topic thread of its own:
firstly, it is one of the few registrations of designs in glass deemed sufficiently important / interesting to be given a substantial descriptive and illustrated link of its own by the National Archives,
and secondly, this glass crown is something of an oddity which, nevertheless, proves a rule – despite being of glass, the lozenge indicates a registration in Class I, metal. Further research shows that “this design was also registered in Class III (glass) and Class IV (earthenware), so the same registry mark has been used irrespective if the material.  This means that the same design could be used for a variety of objects of the same form but made from different materials. Multiple class registration is often used by manufacturers of cosmetic/perfume containers.”

First the photos of a crown jar in transparent yellow uranium glass (which reacts strongly to UV light).

(Permission for the re-use of the images of this yellow uranium glass crown jar granted by Paula Chapman)


Offline agincourt17

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Here are the photos of the second example of the crown jar, this time in jade opaque / milk glass. Unfortunately, the owner was unable to test the glass for its reaction to UV light

(Permission for the re-use of the images of this jade crown jar granted by gold_pins).

Does anyone have photos of this type of crown jar complete with its pinnacle cross?

There are now, obviously, mention of glass examples in yellow uranium, jade milk and blue milk glass – any more examples in other colours to show?

As this design was registered in Classes I, III and IV, does anyone have photos of  examples in metal or earthenware to share?



Offline Baked_Beans

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I found this example today , sadly it's badly damaged . It's not just chipped and missing the cross but it's ''chunked '' to the base of the crown . One of the feet to the cushion has been damaged too. I bought it in a charity shop for £2.00. If you don't have an example of this, agincourt17, then I would be pleased to send it to you free of any charge  :)  I guess it's better to have a damaged one than none  :-\ It really does glow and the detail is excellent (not shown in the photos) there are even one or two black 'seeds'  in the glass plus loads of wear to the base  :D Ta, Mike.

P.S. Thanks for posting this thread ....sorry I couldn't find a better example !

http://www.glassmessages.com/index.php/topic,1012.0.html
Mike

 

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