Author Topic: Signature N Orr '68 fox engraved goblet = Norman Orr Edinburgh crystal blank  (Read 11057 times)

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Offline Anne

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Signature N Orr '68 not Nora Ortlieb? = Italian BLANK
« Reply #10 on: September 04, 2005, 01:45:33 PM »
The only engraver I found called N. Orr is a Victorian one Max, http://web.uflib.ufl.edu/spec/manuscript/guides/Orr%20Family.htm#Engravings don't suppose this helps at all?!  :roll:


Offline chopin-liszt

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Signature N Orr '68 not Nora Ortlieb? = Italian BLANK
« Reply #11 on: September 04, 2005, 01:48:25 PM »
:D  :? It seems odd to me that such a good engraver produces such a tacky looking signature....
Cheers, Sue (M)

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Offline Max

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Signature N Orr '68 not Nora Ortlieb? = Italian BLANK
« Reply #12 on: September 04, 2005, 01:50:42 PM »
Quote from: "Anne"
The only engraver I found called N. Orr is a Victorian one Max:


Thanks for looking Anne, I did find him a few days ago (got quite excited to begin with!) but I think he's a wood engraver, and he might have been a bit dead when this glass was made...  :wink:    xxx
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Offline Frank

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Signature N Orr '68 not Nora Ortlieb? = Italian BLANK
« Reply #13 on: September 04, 2005, 02:51:45 PM »
Trying to match the blank... using Replacements stemware guide.

It is unusual in that it has equal distance either side of the knob. The following are the closest I could find and the Bryce was the closest of all of these. Most of these are illustrated by line drawings only.

Val St Lambert "State Plain" (Similar from line drawing)
Royal Brierley (Close line drawing)
Reizart
Fostoria "6079"
Edinburgh Crystal
Denby
Bryce "949"

Is it machine made or hand-blown?
Frank A.
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Offline Max

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Signature N Orr '68 not Nora Ortlieb? = Italian BLANK
« Reply #14 on: September 04, 2005, 04:21:47 PM »
Wow!  Frank, thank you for going to so much trouble! xx

I have to admit I don't really know what to look for in a handmade glass, so I can only surmise - what an embarassing thing to admit on the GMB!  :oops:

There's no 'shear mark' underneath the foot where the pontil mark would be.  I can't see any gadgets marks either, it's finished very smoothly underneath the foot.

The stem seems to be affixed to the bowl with a 'wafer'  :?:   The foot is exactly the same circumference as the top of the bowl.  The bowl has an interesting 'optic rib', when viewed from certain angles, as if it's been spun out...   :?

It's very heavy and quite cumbersome to handle, the top so far outweighs the stem and foot.  Is there a special type of blank for this type of deep engraving?

Well...here's some more photos...perhaps they'll help?

http://glassgallery.yobunny.org.uk/displayimage.php?pos=-6506
http://glassgallery.yobunny.org.uk/displayimage.php?pos=-6505
http://glassgallery.yobunny.org.uk/displayimage.php?pos=-6504

Thanks again!
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Offline Ivo

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Signature N Orr '68 not Nora Ortlieb? = Scottish BLANK
« Reply #15 on: September 04, 2005, 05:11:31 PM »
Almost certainly hand made. First the bowl was made in a flatbottomed conical mould, then the stem attached; stem and foot were made in a single piece and finished in a clapper (a wooden implement to make it smooth, even  and circular). Clappers came into use after the 1870s, so on no account does it predate that, but you had already figured out it was modern. I can tell - not just from the photograph but because I have that exact glass - unfortunately without fox. It gives a high clear tone when tapped but it is no crystal - it is a semicrystal, so it is probably British or Czech. Also, if you see a fox - look for Brits or Bohemians (cherchez la vixen!)
The "N. ORR '68" does not have to be a signature - it could be after an engraving by Nathaniel Orr, who was a most prolific illustrator in the 19th century.
Ivo

ps. Sorry to hear about your maxident - but if I were you I'd blame it on hot glass....
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Offline Frank

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Signature N Orr '68 not Nora Ortlieb? = Italian BLANK
« Reply #16 on: September 04, 2005, 05:43:44 PM »
In which case, get in touch with Edinburgh Crystal and ask them if this was someone who engraved for them.
Frank A.
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Offline Max

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Signature N Orr '68 not Nora Ortlieb? = Italian BLANK
« Reply #17 on: September 04, 2005, 06:46:46 PM »
Quote
In which case, get in touch with Edinburgh Crystal and ask them if this was someone who engraved for them.


Ok, I'll try that.  Thanks for altering my thread title Frank, it might help too.  I'll email Edinburgh crystal tomorrow - hope they can help!   :)

Ivo...thanks for an interesting post!  You would have the same glass, you've got a representation of just about everything glass related!  :roll:  xx  :D

I loved learning about the 'clapper'...I'm going to investigate that more, and you're right, I was thinking it might be crystal...as it does have a nice 'ping'...I've never heard of semi-crystal.  Crumbs!   This goblet has turned in to a right learning curve for me!

Thanks all.   :D
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Offline Max

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Signature N Orr '68 not Nora Ortlieb? = Italian BLANK
« Reply #18 on: October 12, 2005, 09:01:22 AM »
On the subject of my engraved goblet, I wrote to Tony Gilliam, a member of the Guild of Glass Engravers (www.gge.org.uk) Leni's hubby, Jonathan and I had a merry time making an engraved paperweight with him at Art in Action.

http://glassgallery.yobunny.org.uk/displayimage.php?pos=-6503

He said the goblet itself was 24% lead crystal, and he recognised it immediately as Italian.  This company makes huge quantities of glass, and is a favourite with glass engravers.

He said the engraving itself is done by copper wheel (as Frank suggested)
Of course, I'm a bit disappointed that I haven't bought anything too exciting, but the thrill of the chase was kind of fun.   8)  :roll:

Thanks to all for their help. xx
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Offline Max

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Re: Signature N Orr '68 not Nora Ortlieb? = Italian BLANK
« Reply #19 on: June 03, 2009, 05:25:23 PM »


Mod: I've moved this topic back into Glass for the moment


Frank maybe?

I've got David Encill here at the moment and I happened to show him this goblet, he said immediately 'Norman Orr'!!  

Seems like it might be a match?  What does anyone think?  :)

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