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Author Topic: A Little More Info on Royo Glass  (Read 18337 times)

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Offline TxSilver

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Re: A Little More Info on Royo Glass
« Reply #10 on: October 31, 2008, 02:56:42 PM »
Thanks for the help translating, Ivo. The link was indecipherable to one who does not read Spanish. I neglected to say the link was the site of a noted Spanish decorator.
Anita
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Offline krsilber

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Re: A Little More Info on Royo Glass
« Reply #11 on: October 31, 2008, 04:44:38 PM »
"Firmes de marca

- Enric Riera

- Cirera (Àngel Segura, Mercé Cirera, Royo)

- Gordiola – Mallorca"

I'm confused.  Here Royo is listed under the trademark Cirera, separate from Gordiola.  But Royo has been confirmed as working for Gordiola, right?  So are all three of these part of Gordiola?  Or did Royo move to/from Cirera from/to Gordiola?

Kristi


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Offline TxSilver

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Re: A Little More Info on Royo Glass
« Reply #12 on: October 31, 2008, 05:53:48 PM »
I don't think it has been confirmed that Royo was with Gordiolas Glassworks. I believe that it was said he was probably from Mallorca, but other than that he was a mystery. The 5-spout vase in another thread (unknown artist) was probably from the Gordiolas Glassworks. All of this is in the same general area, so it gets kind of confusing. I have received a few new links, but I'll hold off and try to put them all together if they aren't in Spanish. It will keep if from being so confusing. It will still all be speculative, though, so I can see people grasping their heads.  :)
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Offline krsilber

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Re: A Little More Info on Royo Glass
« Reply #13 on: October 31, 2008, 06:14:06 PM »
I was referring to this thread - "Just had a mail from Jesús Fernández at Gordiola who confirms that the Royo pieces were indeed made by Gordiola, and decorated at the oven in enamel folk themes by catalan artist Royo." (Ivo's post #23):
http://www.glassmessages.com/index.php/topic,20531.20.html

I don't read Spanish either...could it be that Royo worked separately, and just used Gordiola glass?  I don't know if that question was ever really addressed.
Kristi


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Offline Ivo

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Re: A Little More Info on Royo Glass
« Reply #14 on: October 31, 2008, 06:26:03 PM »
I don't think it has been confirmed that Royo was with Gordiolas Glassworks

Groan

Please note that this HAS been confirmed and that the place is called Gordiola not Gordiolas.

Now will you please STOP this speculation. It serves no purpose at all and just irritates me.

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Offline TxSilver

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Re: A Little More Info on Royo Glass
« Reply #15 on: October 31, 2008, 07:12:10 PM »
I was referring to this thread - "Just had a mail from Jesús Fernández at Gordiola who confirms that the Royo pieces were indeed made by Gordiola, and decorated at the oven in enamel folk themes by catalan artist Royo." (Ivo's post #23):
http://www.glassmessages.com/index.php/topic,20531.20.html

I don't read Spanish either...could it be that Royo worked separately, and just used Gordiola glass?  I don't know if that question was ever really addressed.

You are right, Kristi. I had already set the earlier things aside. It is nice to learn about the Cirera side of things. I am finding the work very interesting.
Anita
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Offline krsilber

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Re: A Little More Info on Royo Glass
« Reply #16 on: November 01, 2008, 12:59:44 AM »
I don't think it has been confirmed that Royo was with Gordiolas Glassworks

Groan

Please note that this HAS been confirmed and that the place is called Gordiola not Gordiolas.

Now will you please STOP this speculation. It serves no purpose at all and just irritates me.


I disagree that speculation serves no purpose.  Speculation is what raised the question about Royo being Gordiola in the first place.  It is different from drawing conclusions based on unconfirmed or questionable information, which I think may be a problem with this thread.  For instance there is conflicting information about the first name of Cirera - one source says it's Genís, and one says it's Mercé.  (Speculation:  Are these two different people?)  And to repeat my earlier question, what's the story here:
Quote
Firmes de marca

- Enric Riera

- Cirera (Àngel Segura, Mercé Cirera, Royo)

- Gordiola – Mallorca

...............................................
Ivo - did you ever hear anything more than this from the Gordiola people:
Quote
Efectivamente, estas piezas estan realizadas por Vidrios Gordiola, y
decoradas en pintura artesanal al horno por Royo (personaje catalán) .
En otro e-mail le informaré de la época.
My Spanish is weak... does this actually say Royo worked for Gordiola?  It's hard to know without the context of the question.  Seems like it could be saying, "These pieces were made by Gordiola Glassworks and decorated with fired enamel by Catalan Royo."  If that's the correct translation and that's all the information you were given, it doesn't necessarily mean Royo worked at Gordiola.  I'm probably missing some important bit.

...............................................
At any rate, I think the Cirera topic needs further research to be able to make any definite conclusions.  I applaud Anita's efforts to find out who Cirera was, but I do think she should be careful about interpreting Spanish.  For instance, "Another vessel at http://www.todocoleccion.net/aceitera-detalles-estilo-murano~x10380463 is probably Royo, although it is called Murano."  It's not called Murano, it says it's in the style of Murano.  And I don't see any evidence of this:  "It looks like Cirera had his own glassworks."
Kristi


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Offline TxSilver

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Re: A Little More Info on Royo Glass
« Reply #17 on: November 01, 2008, 08:01:46 PM »
A lot of the problem, I believe, is that I am not filling in the information that is in the links I am providing. I'll try to link it together better.

Cirera was apparently born Genis Cirera-Casonovas in 1890, Badalona, and died in 1970 or 1979, Barcelona. From the curriculum vita of Angel Segura we learn that Segura worked at Cristalleries Llige when he returned to Barcelona in 1929. If my translation is correct, he worked under Genis Cirera for about a year at Llige. Later in 1932, Cirera invited Segura to collaborate with him at Cirera's new shop (or studio). This would help explain why the 1930s photographs on the Segura site look like the pieces made by Cirera. They were probably either made with him or were inspired by work Segura did while with Cirera.

The pieces I have seen by Cirera have been dated 1920s-1940s, but he probably did later work. None of this is speculation, really. It is just putting the pieces together. I believe that Deborah Truitt did a good bit of research on the topic already. I have a little of the information she gathered, but am not sure how it relates to the Cirera years. It would probably just be confusing to try to merge all the information without filling in the gaps first.
Anita
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Offline hazespain

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Re: A Little More Info on Royo Glass
« Reply #18 on: November 04, 2008, 02:04:41 AM »
I think it's about time we summarised what we do and do not know about Moser/Cire/Royo.  There's no speculation in here just data confirmed by outside sources and our own observation; plus too many unanswered questions.  It would be great if anyone could add to this list or answer any of the questions.
 
Firstly, what we know and can be confirmed:
 
1. The signature, commonly referred to as "Cire", is actually Cirera
2. There is no provable link between Moser and the Cirera/Royo signatures
3. An New York City importer (Ardalt) was selling similar glassware in the 1960's but have since gone out of business
4. The Gordiola glassworks made Royo-signed items
5. Some Royo and Cirera pieces are similar in design and shape
6. No cruets (with the bird stoppers) have been found with the Royo signature - they are all signed Cirera
7. The quality of the decoration on the pieces varies significantly
8. Spanish antique dealers attribute the signature "Cirera" to a Catalan artist whose full name is Genis Cirera Cassanovas (b1890 in Badalona - d 1970 in Barcelona)
9. Pieces signed "Royo" have been found, which are dated after the death of Genis Cirera
10. Gordiola say that Royo is a Catalan artist
11. Work signed Cirera commands high prices in Spain
12. Both Royo and Cirera are linked to another Spanish glass artist, namely Angel Segura Sole
13. The Royo signature also appears on ceramics
 
What we don't know (but are trying to find out)
 
1. Is Royo also the name of a company or group of artists?  If not, he was very prolific.
2. What is the full name of Royo?  There should be at least 3 names - first name, father's surname, mother's surname.
2. If Royo is Catalan, was he working in Majorca or were the Gordiola blanks imported to Catalonia?  If the latter, why not use a local company?
3. Is Cirera also the name of a company or group of artists?
4. Did Gordiola make all the pieces carrying the Royo signature?
5. Did Gordiola make all of/any blanks for the Cirera signed pieces?
6. Where did the American importer, Ardalt, get their stock and are there any photographs?
7. Are all the items signed "Cirera" by Genis?

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Offline Lustrousstone

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Re: A Little More Info on Royo Glass
« Reply #19 on: November 04, 2008, 07:40:38 AM »
Don't know 2
I think Royo being Catalan is probably correct. It is possible that some/all Mallorcans may consider themselves to be Catalans because that's the official language of the island (along with Spanish). Or he may have been from Catalonia on the mainland. It's all Spain. So I think you can discard No 2 as being a red herring. It's bit like saying Gordon Brown (UK PM) is Scottish, so why is he working in London, England!?

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