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Author Topic: warbler, shrike or cuckoo?  (Read 3595 times)

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Offline KevinH

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Re: warbler, shrike or cuckoo?
« Reply #10 on: November 04, 2008, 01:04:04 PM »
That's not a nuthatch, even allowing for artistic imagination!

A bird with its body arched upwards may suggest an alarmed state - which could be reasonable for this one if it had found out that its plumage is totally unlike any known bird. :o

Wings held downwards could suggest a young bird begging for food, or a mature bird in courtship behaviour.

The main colouring, grey and rufous, could suggest a form of Redstart or one of a few less common Thrushes, such as the Rufous-Tailed Rock Thrush Monticola saxatilis, which does occur locally in a few parts of southern France.
KevinH


Offline krsilber

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Re: warbler, shrike or cuckoo?
« Reply #11 on: November 04, 2008, 03:04:06 PM »
...Nor is it a treecreeper (or a tree hugger!), and I would venture to say it would take a great deal of artistic licence to turn it into a Rufous-Tailed Rock Thrush.  Body seems too short for a Redstart, and beak too long.  My vote is it's imaginary.  Look - it has white eyes!  Spooky.
Kristi


"The most beautiful thing we can experience is the mysterious. It is the source of all true art and all science."

- Albert Einstein


Offline Bernard C

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Re: warbler, shrike or cuckoo?
« Reply #12 on: November 04, 2008, 04:08:01 PM »
Quote from: KevH
...   Wings held downwards could suggest a young bird begging for food, or a mature bird in courtship behaviour.   ...

Or, Kevin, that the artist was sourcing from a contemporary bird publication, see here.

Bernard C.  8)
Happy Christmas and a Successful New Year to All Glass Makers, Historians, Dealers, and Collectors

Text and Images Copyright 200414 Bernard Cavalot


Offline krsilber

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Re: warbler, shrike or cuckoo?
« Reply #13 on: November 04, 2008, 04:57:20 PM »
He probably had a bird book right there, chose all the bits he liked best from the various birds, and put them together in this little feathered wonder!  Ach, I'm being silly.  There are so many birds in this world, who am I to say, without looking at bird books from around the globe, that this one isn't found in nature?  The coloring to me just doesn't look natural, though.

Maybe that's why the wing are shown as they are - to display the rump characteristics, like in the beautiful image in Bernard's link.   ;) To me, it just looks like it's going to launch itself off the branch.  Or doing the hokey pokey for his woman. 

How is it there are so many birdos on this board?  In America it's glass and rocks, in the UK it's glass and birds.  Cats straddle the Pond.
Kristi


"The most beautiful thing we can experience is the mysterious. It is the source of all true art and all science."

- Albert Einstein


Offline Bernard C

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Re: warbler, shrike or cuckoo?
« Reply #14 on: November 04, 2008, 05:41:29 PM »
Quote from: krsilber
... like in the beautiful image in Bernard's link.   ...

Kristi — Not so beautiful, as that posture indicates that it was drawn from a dead specimen.

Bernard C.  8)
Happy Christmas and a Successful New Year to All Glass Makers, Historians, Dealers, and Collectors

Text and Images Copyright 200414 Bernard Cavalot


Offline krsilber

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Re: warbler, shrike or cuckoo?
« Reply #15 on: November 04, 2008, 07:36:25 PM »
That's perfectly possible - natural history museums are full of them, having stuffed dead animals around the house used to be more acceptable, and it's pretty hard to get a bird to sit still long enough to paint it well and in such detail.  No nice color snapshots in 1905!  But I don't see how the posture indicates it.  If you mean the drooping wings, I think that was intentional in order to show the markings on the rump.
Kristi


"The most beautiful thing we can experience is the mysterious. It is the source of all true art and all science."

- Albert Einstein


Offline KevinH

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Re: warbler, shrike or cuckoo?
« Reply #16 on: November 04, 2008, 10:50:54 PM »
The colouring in the image that Bernard linked to shows an interesting feature - for the male bird, the head and back are clearly blue rather than grey. And although the illustrations in my reference material show grey (to my eyes) the descriptions generally include: "blue-grey head and mantle" for the male Rock Thrush aka Rufous-tailed Rock Thrush.

The grey of Ivo's strange bird could have been intended as a "blue-grey". Descriptions also state, "... with white back ..." which, in video images I have (from Birds of the Western Paleartic - interactive version) shows as a white patch when seen from a back virew or as a white "double-stripe" when seen in profile view. And that white-in-profile is very much like the white in the queried bird.

Apart from some apparent distortions in the sizes of various parts, the overall appearance including a relatively short tail does make sense for a Rock Thrush.

What does not make sense for me is the colour of the upper parts of the head! And yes, the eye should be mainly black, not mostly white. And the bill seems to be very pale instead of dark. And parts of the wing colouring don't tie up too well either. But these are just mere details. ;D ::) ;D
KevinH


Offline krsilber

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Re: warbler, shrike or cuckoo?
« Reply #17 on: November 05, 2008, 12:10:18 AM »
You think it looks like the male rufous-tailed rock thrush?  Huh.  I definitely agree it looks thrushy.

Google images shows lots of them, apparently with and without white patches on the back.  If there, they are much less extensive than the one Ivo posted.  But it sounds like you're not really convinced, either, that it's a picture of a RTRT.  There's probably some little-known thrush endemic to a mountain in Sumatra that's the spitting image.
Check out the variation in head color:
http://www.animalpicturesarchive.com/view.php?tid=3&did=10443&lang=kr
http://www.surfbirds.com/media/gallery_photos/20080531043337.jpg
http://www.flickr.com/photos/7668450@N05/2352380031/
http://travel.webshots.com/photo/2846514400033770101QmFeTH

Whoa!  Have a look at the posture on this boy:
http://picasaweb.google.com/Avigraphicon/TheBirdsOfEuropeVolsIThroughIII#5171730055532705986
Kristi


"The most beautiful thing we can experience is the mysterious. It is the source of all true art and all science."

- Albert Einstein


Offline KevinH

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Re: warbler, shrike or cuckoo?
« Reply #18 on: November 05, 2008, 03:40:49 PM »
Quote
You think it looks like the male rufous-tailed rock thrush?
No! I do not think the bird as featured on the vase looks like a Rock Thrush. I have stated my reservations about several features. But when I analyse the general features and each individual feature, including the comparitive size of body parts as well as the colouring of the various parts, my conclusion is that it may have been based on a description or an illustration of the Rock Thrush. Old images were often monochrome and people had to rely on descriptions which were often not as detailed and precise as we are used to today. And anyway, even today we can buy wonderful books full of coloured illustrations, or even photos, but find that the colours and descriptions vary between books almost as much as an actual plumage can vary for many species!

The bird on the vase may well be a complete fantasy. But if it is supposed to be a real one, and if it is one known in Europe, I suggest Rock Thrush (much distorted) as the model used.
KevinH


Offline krsilber

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Re: warbler, shrike or cuckoo?
« Reply #19 on: November 05, 2008, 05:11:01 PM »
Oh, sorry, Kev, I got all that before, I should have said "similar to" rather than "like"...I was just surprised it was the male you were talking about; I thought you were comparing it with the female.  To me she looks more similar, but both are a stretch. 

Maybe it's a White-Eye!  Joking.
Kristi


"The most beautiful thing we can experience is the mysterious. It is the source of all true art and all science."

- Albert Einstein

 

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