Topic: John Walsh Walsh Wrythen Beakers... Or WF...

[Pinkspoons]

Recently acquired 9 of these very delicate and very very thin-walled wrythen beakers with four dented sides. They're all slightly different in height and diameter, but they're all about 115mm x 80mm.

There's an image of an identical glass in the Whitefriars.com glass collection gallery, attributed to Harry Powell, without year or pattern number, and a member of the site suggested to me that this design was actually Walsh, and is illustrated in Reynolds (fig. 85). I'm currently lacking this book on my shelf (although likely not for long, with my birthday coming up shortly and it being near the top of my list of must-haves), so I can't check for myself the similarity.

What do the folk here think? (apologies for the sub-standard photo - it was taken on a half-lit set-up, and the design is a pain to capture)

Thanks in advance. 

[nigel benson]

Hello Nic,

I'm afraid that my immediate reaction to your question is:

So, bang to rights in Reynolds, fig 85, but no evidence that they are Whitefriars - what do you think?

The reasonable answer to your question is:

There is known record for these (and very similar dented and wrythn tumblers) being by a number of STOURBRIDGE makers, and definate proof of them being by John Walsh Walsh, however there is no record of them being made at Whitefriars. It is therefore unlikely that they are by Powell.

The reality is that similar pieces were made by Powell, but the important information is in the detail. In my opion, just as with other pieces that are thought to be by Powell, it is more a question of wishful thinking than them fulfilling the detail of the charcteristics that make them Powell.

By-the-by I have a large crate full of these and the relating stemmed glasses that I would not dream of passing off as by Powell. Any offers?

Nigel

[Pinkspoons]

WF.com does seem to have a few variations on a theme in their gallery that are stated very definitively as H. Powell designs, but fail to summon any pattern numbers for them - which is quite worrying for a dedicated WF reference site. I only have the Manchester WF book (MoL is a little out of my reach currently), but not a sniff of anything similar within its pages.

I didn't pay very much for the glasses and I bought them purely to get a feel for old(er) English glass - along with my recently acquired c.1900 Thos. Webb bowl set - so there's nothing financial riding on them not being Whitefriars. It's just good to know that I'm likely landing on some of the bigger names of the period with my first few stabs in the dark, if not hitting the Powell jackpot just yet.

Is there a way of divining the Walsh output from other Stourbridge makers? Besdies the obvious signature-hunting, I mean...

[nigel benson]

Hi Nic,

By "signature hunting", I presume you mean the back stamp, or acid mark, or factory mark.

These are NOT signatures. Sorry, my pet hate :huh:

Whereabouts on the W/f's site are these references?

Nigel

[Pinkspoons]

Backstamp-hunting, then. 

These are the WF.com references:

http://www.whitefriars.com/contents.php?pageNum_Recordset1=9&totalRows_Recordset1=97&ID=62
http://www.whitefriars.com/contents.php?pageNum_Recordset1=7&totalRows_Recordset1=97&ID=64
http://www.whitefriars.com/contents.php?pageNum_Recordset1=5&totalRows_Recordset1=97&ID=21

[nigel benson]

Hello Nic,

The first two references (one which I actually did find last night, but than you for the references) are IMHO not Powell, but Walsh, as identified by Ian Price on W/f's.com.

I and a number of other dealers actually 'helped' form the collection that is being referenced by your links. It was largely formed in the 1990's.

The third refernce is a Harry Powell design and can be substantiated as such. It is illustrated in The British Home Today by W Shaw-Sparrow, in 1904. The foot is ribbed with a slight swirl; the ribbed knop stem is hollow and the bowl with dented sides is plain and not ribbed. Oh, and I supplied that one

Cheers, Nigel