No-one likes general adverts, and ours hadn't been updated for ages, so we're having a clear-out and a change round to make the new ones useful to you. These new adverts bring in a small amount to help pay for the board and keep it free for you to use, so please do use them whenever you can, Let our links help you find great books on glass or a new piece for your collection. Thank you for supporting the Board.

Author Topic: ABP cut glass bowl  (Read 2045 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline KarenR

  • Members
  • **
  • Posts: 43
  • Gender: Female
Re: ABP cut glass bowl
« Reply #10 on: December 27, 2008, 07:00:49 PM »
This is a Fry "America" pattern celery tray cut on a figured blank, which feels as lumpy as it looks. 

Support the Glass Message Board by finding a book via book-seek.com


Offline krsilber

  • Members
  • **
  • Posts: 1019
  • Gender: Female
Re: ABP cut glass bowl
« Reply #11 on: December 27, 2008, 08:36:56 PM »
Thanks, Roy, for the additional photos.  It does help...I think there are unpolished bits there.  The flashing (little spikes between the rays of the pinwheels) and little stars in the diamonds don't look polished.  This supports Jindrich's comment:

I would gues that this bowl came from Czechoslovakia, glassworks Bohemia, Poděbrady - from 80ties.
I have found same bowl in Poděbrady catalogue from 1982, simmilar but a bit different pattern.

I will check catalogues, but it takes time, please focus your investigation also to this direction.
I did try bowse Czech web sites, I have found only current production with pattern PK500, so rather paperwork than web can help.

Jindrich


Jindrich!  So nice to have you here, you're such a wealth of information!  And you actually have catalogues of Czech cut glass, that's great!  I wouldn't even have known what company to look for.
Kristi


"The most beautiful thing we can experience is the mysterious. It is the source of all true art and all science."

- Albert Einstein

Support the Glass Message Board by finding glass through glass-seek.com


Offline mhgcgolfclub

  • Members
  • **
  • Posts: 1402
Re: ABP cut glass bowl
« Reply #12 on: December 28, 2008, 10:21:50 AM »
Thanks Karen, Kristi and Jindrich for all your help,

 I think I have learnt quite a lot just by buying this bowl and it will be a help when I have to decide wether other items I find at fairs are ABP or are more modern pieces such as this bowl.

I can understand and see what you mean when you say parts are unpolished its something I can look at in the future when deciding wether to buy. I think there are always going to be items I find which may be difficult to decide if they are ABP or European living in the UK, particularly as the amount of ABP cut glass in the UK must be a small fraction of what you have in the USA.

All the pieces I have at the present have been bought for fairs, carboots and charity shops, I have decided to only collect pieces which I find in the UK, hopefully it may be of some help to you in the USA to show what can be found outside the USA , maybe we can only speculate what pieces were sold through retailers or pieces which were bought in the USA and came back to the UK from people visting the USA or moving to the UK

thanks again Roy

Support the Glass Message Board by finding a book via book-seek.com


Offline KarenR

  • Members
  • **
  • Posts: 43
  • Gender: Female
Re: ABP cut glass bowl
« Reply #13 on: December 28, 2008, 06:09:57 PM »
Roy:  Either you have an eye for choosing good quality glass or only good quality American cut glass was profitable to export - maybe a bit of both.  From what I remember, there has been a Hawkes punch bowl, Buffalo Niagra bowl, Laurel Miriam tray and now your compote/sweet pea vase cut by Meriden.  I occasionally search eBay UK for American cut glass and am rarely disappointed - even if nothing American is found, it is interesting to see examples of English cut glass.  Although there are "transition" pieces of cut glass prior to the American Brilliant period, generally beginning in 1870, where it is extremely difficult to discern English from American origin, I get the feeling the English have kept their own more refined and elegant style and have never attempted to copy American designs.  Many of the founders of the early American cut glass companies immigrated from Europe, especially England and Ireland, bringing their own styles to America.   "Rich cut" at least for advertising purposes seems to have meant American cut glass with "brilliant cut" used by the English.  An American company by the name of Suffolk Glass Works advertised "rich cut tableware" in 1862 so the 1870 beginning of the American Brilliant period may have begun earlier. 

The styles and blank shapes of German and Polish cut glass also appear quite different from American cut glass.   

Val St. Lambert's 1908 catalog reprinted by the ACGA contains glass which had been thought to be American until that catalog was discovered.  Although written of course in French, it was determined that any of the items in that YSL catalog were available in "cut to clear."  There is no mention in American catalogs or advertisements offering cut to clear glass.  So, unless a cut to clear piece is cut in a pattern attributable to an American cutting house, Val St. Lambert is usually the first suspect.  Val St. Lambert was also a known blank supplier to American cutting companies, as was Baccarat.  Black light testing can yield interesting information in this regard.

I believe it's the eastern European companies which have produced the American Brilliant period-like cut glass.  If the pinwheel motif originated in America, approximately 1900 would be the earliest a pinwheel piece could have been made.  Although pinwheels were beautifully cut by some companies such as Quaker City, this motif is not as popular and in fact avoided by some collectors as it brands it to a time in the American Brilliant period when many other labor-cost saving measures were widely used, such as figured blanks and chemical polishing.  Pinwheels were easier to cut than hobstars. 

Yasemin advertised it was reproducing old American cut glass.  Does anyone know if they are still in business?  A well-respected man named Pepi Hermann here in America has been recreating American Brilliant cut glass with his own designs for decades.  Counterfeit ABP cut glass was also made - a conspicuous number of very rare patterned pieces appeared on the market in, as I recall, the 1980s.  The producer of the glass has never been determined but it was sold primarily by an ex-ACGA member.  There were great losses financially and no one knows whether all the counterfeit glass has been discovered.  This naturally led to better methods of determining authenticity of American Brilliant cut glass, especially at ACGA-sponsored shows and events, and includes black light testing as one of a number of tools. 

A wave of reproduction American Brilliant period cut glass may appear which is produced in China.  A prominent ACGA member last year was contacted by a business man who wanted to buy catalogs.  It appeared to be on behalf of a Chinese company who was offering to reproduce any pattern in the catalogs desired.  Of course the request was refused and is laughable as some catalog pictures are of poor quality and in many cases not all of a pattern can be seen.  If the Chinese want American catalogs they can and will find them elsewhere. 

I'm hoping Jindra will be able to identify the maker of your bowl.  It's an impressive cut glass piece but for reasons I can't quite put my finger on believe it was (eastern) European made. 

Support the Glass Message Board by finding glass through glass-seek.com


Offline krsilber

  • Members
  • **
  • Posts: 1019
  • Gender: Female
Re: ABP cut glass bowl
« Reply #14 on: December 28, 2008, 08:05:48 PM »
The term "richly cut" was used at the time in England.  Some motifs, like Russian and cane (I think the latter was originally American anyway), were copied from American glass.  Hadjamach even shows a Stourbridge vase with hobstars.  I imagine there are a few pieces of English glass that one could mistake for American, but not many.

(The Czech Republic is central, not eastern, European).

Roy certainly does find some wonderful ABP over there!
Kristi


"The most beautiful thing we can experience is the mysterious. It is the source of all true art and all science."

- Albert Einstein

Support the Glass Message Board by finding a book via book-seek.com


Offline KarenR

  • Members
  • **
  • Posts: 43
  • Gender: Female
Re: ABP cut glass bowl
« Reply #15 on: December 28, 2008, 09:44:51 PM »
Geography is not my specialty, sorry.  Yasemin is located in the Black Sea region on the border of Turkey and Russia and was as of 1997 reported to have been sold at their company in Larkspur, Colorado. 

I would love to see an English cut Hobstar.

"Richly cut" is different than "rich cut."  I don't recall ever running across an American cut glass ad describing  "richly cut" glass. 

There seem to be many Russian pattern cut English cologne bottles which are difficult to distinguish from American.  I have been told subtle differences in shape of the English blanks, not the cutting itself, are about the only clue with these pieces.   


Support the Glass Message Board by finding glass through glass-seek.com


 

SMF spam blocked by CleanTalk
Look for glass on
ebay.co.uk
Visit the Glass Encyclopedia
link to glass encyclopedia
Look for glass on
ebay.com (us)
Visit the Online Glass Museum
link to glass museum


This website is provided by Angela Bowey, PO Box 113, Paihia 0247, New Zealand