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Author Topic: Cut Glass Jug ABP or European ?  (Read 944 times)

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Offline mhgcgolfclub

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Cut Glass Jug ABP or European ?
« on: January 09, 2009, 12:09:11 PM »
Karen and Kristi , one of you asked if I had any European cut glass, I do have one cut glass jug that I bought a couple of years ago that I thought may be ABP, although I have never been really convinced that it was, could it be European ?.

As a blank it looks to be the right shape, thickness of glass and weight, height 7.85" and weighs over 2 kg.
It is cut but not to a high level and does not quite have the feel that other pieces I have, that may be because the jug is not that highly cut,

I be very interested on you views

thanks again Roy

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Offline KarenR

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Re: Cut Glass Jug ABP or European ?
« Reply #1 on: January 09, 2009, 03:36:47 PM »
Hi, Roy -

I see nothing inconsistent with American Brilliant period cut glass in your pitcher.  It was just produced later in the period.  Compare the flashed hobstar of your sweet pea vase to that of this pitcher and you'll see an example of how motifs were simplified so that they required less hand cutting/labor cost.  More glass could then be produced at a more affordable price.  The scalloped rim was also easier to produce than saw teeth.  A plain handle was easiest, requiring no hand cutting; single and double notched or thumbprint handles were most common; triple notching would have been done on higher quality pieces; and some companies would actually cut a detailed pattern onto a handle, such as Dorflinger. 

Hard core ABP collectors generally are not interested in these later pieces but they do sell and can be quite pretty.  The later period pitchers pictured below (mine) sold for $50+ each.  Interestingly, a year after selling the pitcher with the flower motif via a newly discovered and reprinted catalog by research group LABAC I was able to ID it as having been made by the Fischer Cut Glass Co in 1918 in their "Tuxedo" design. 

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Offline krsilber

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Re: Cut Glass Jug ABP or European ?
« Reply #2 on: January 09, 2009, 10:56:13 PM »
Hmmm.  There's nothing inconsistent with it being American, but if they made blanks that shape in Europe, I'd say there's nothing inconsistent with it being European, either.  I asked before because I was wondering about the angle of the major miters, and the "test" someone told Karen about:  if you stick the corner of a business card or something similar in the miter (in cross section), is the angle bigger than 90 degrees, smaller, or the same?
Kristi


"The most beautiful thing we can experience is the mysterious. It is the source of all true art and all science."

- Albert Einstein

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Offline KarenR

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Re: Cut Glass Jug ABP or European ?
« Reply #3 on: January 09, 2009, 11:42:10 PM »
Roy - I believe you've seen acid etched signatures on clear glass before.  In case you don't already know this, your pitcher, if signed, would most likely be signed on the flat thumb rest at the top of the handle or below the bottom of the handle attachment on the body of the pitcher.  It could be signed also on the bottom although surface wear often removes or degrades them. 

Kristi, the business card test was told to me in reference to a cut to clear piece. 

If England made cut glass so similar to American made of the time, there certainly were English catalogs.  Where are they?

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Offline mhgcgolfclub

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Re: Cut Glass Jug ABP or European ?
« Reply #4 on: January 10, 2009, 12:35:44 AM »
Thanks Karen and Kristi

I have checked in those areas for an acid etched mark but cannot find one. I am sure that I have read that blanks made in the UK were bought by American companies for cutting, I am guessing a little but the shape of the jug is not a shape that I see at fairs and would consider English, I think my doubts were more if it may have been continental Europe

Roy

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Offline KarenR

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Re: Cut Glass Jug ABP or European ?
« Reply #5 on: January 10, 2009, 02:27:01 AM »
One important distinguishing characteristic of continental European cut glass that is confused with American Brilliant period is cutting left unpolished.  I can't see any on your pitcher. 

There are not many references for this cutting house but I think it's likely Quaker City Cut Glass Co cut your pitcher.  They used paper labels so a signature wouldn't be present.  While not extremely complex, your exact flashed hobstar is quite unique and I believe I found it on several pieces pictured in a LABAC publication which reprinted a 1910 catalog.  Research notes indicate Quaker City was producing cut glass as late as 1917 and another company, Liberty Cut Glass Works (which sold directly to the consumer), published an undated catalog showing at least five patterns identical to Quaker City's.  There is much information, catalogs and probably ads yet to be discovered for both of these apparently connected companies.

I will leave the others to mull over a possible continental European origin for your pitcher.  I believe it was American  made based on many hundreds if not thousands of pictures of ABP pitchers in my references from about 1870 to the early 1920s.  Its flashed hobstar appears to be as unique to Quaker City as the flashed hobstar on your sweet pea vase is to Meriden.  It was very lucky the exact ad had been discovered and reprinted which identified your vase's maker.  I certainly will keep my eye open looking through the books for your pitcher but suspect the references needed to identify your pitcher's maker just haven't been discovered yet. 

Posted with permission from LABAC from Cycle #10 (PBM), pg 290:





 

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Offline krsilber

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Re: Cut Glass Jug ABP or European ?
« Reply #6 on: January 10, 2009, 02:58:28 AM »
(Karen posted hers while I was writing this.  Listen to her, not me!  That certainly does look like the same star.)

Quote
If England made cut glass so similar to American made of the time, there certainly were English catalogs.  Where are they?

There are a couple Stevens and Williams ones on Frank's Glass Catalog site.  Not much of it could be mistaken for American, though.  I wasn't just thinking English.  French and Bohemian would be other remote possibilities.  I've only seen cut-to-clear Bohemian stuff (in a catalog image), and '30s the earliest, but it's possible they did clear blanks, too.

Roy's blank does look awfully American.  I was sort of playing devil's advocate in saying there wasn't anything inconsistent with a European cutting.

Karen, have you seen this site?  There are some interesting catalogs shown there, for instance this page from Baccarat, 1916 shows some rich cut type stuff.

Quote
Kristi, the business card test was told to me in reference to a cut to clear piece.
 Oh!  So it only applies when comparing American CTC vs. European CTC?  I wonder why.
Kristi


"The most beautiful thing we can experience is the mysterious. It is the source of all true art and all science."

- Albert Einstein

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Offline Nancy128

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Re: Cut Glass Jug ABP or European ?
« Reply #7 on: January 10, 2009, 02:08:40 PM »
Roy,

Karen sure does a wonderful job with her researching, doesn't she!!  This pitcher/jug is IMO definitely American Brilliant, just later in the period as Karen stated. 

Great job Karen! 

Great cut glass, Roy!!

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Offline mhgcgolfclub

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Re: Cut Glass Jug ABP or European ?
« Reply #8 on: January 10, 2009, 06:31:04 PM »
I think Karen does a superb job in her research and has helped me hugely in the Id of several pieces of glass, I have learnt a great deal in the last few weeks which will help for years to come when I find new pieces and have to decide if they are ABP or European and so to make less mistakes

Thanks again Karen for all your hard work , time and effort Roy

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