Author Topic: Cool Story or No way...Czecho-Slovakia Perfume bottle  (Read 3441 times)

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Offline norcalglassman

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Cool Story or No way...Czecho-Slovakia Perfume bottle
« on: February 03, 2009, 07:43:13 AM »
Hello to all from Northern California. I hope your group has room for a Yankee.
My wife and I have a perfume bottle, its marked Germany on the bottom, but we could also see writing under the Germany stamp. We took the bottle to a shop to make since of what was there. This is the story we got.
He said it reads "Made in Czecho-Slovakia" He told us that the bottle was more than likely made before the 1940s before the time Germany invaded The Czechoslovakian Republic. He talked about how Germany would take the products from a Country they had over- thrown and send them back home where they would be marked "Germany" and then sold to the world market. So that is what we know about the bottle, kind of neat background.} Also he said the number 33 that is painted on the bottom is the artist number.
I’m new and will try and post pics of the bottle and the mark, The pics shows what we see and we can make out that it does read Made In Czecho-Slovakia . So what do you all think?
Tim & Lisa

http://i40.tinypic.com/552rkp.jpg
http://i41.tinypic.com/256w7qr.jpg

Offline Jindra8526

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Re: Cool Story or No way...Czecho-Slovakia Perfume bottle
« Reply #1 on: February 03, 2009, 08:12:04 AM »
Best regards to California from Prague, Czech republic, formerly Czechoslovakia.

The story sounds rational but I have are serious doubts about. It is absolutely sure that this piece is a "bohemian", this type of glass has been produced in Haida (Nový Bor) region. After Munich agreement in November 1938 this part of Czechoslovakia felt German hands and was connected to Germany. The rest of country became be the Protectorate of Bohemia and Moravia in March 1939. The perion between November 1938 and March 1939 is so called 2nd republic, and residual part of inland had a name Czecho-Slovakia, before and after WWII always Czechoslovakia.

So the region of Haida with more than 50 percent of German spoken Czechoslovakian citizens was really part of Germany. What is very unclear for me is the usage of English for designation of origin. At that pieces formerly having Czechoslovakia mark were stamped "Sudetenland"  or simply Deutschland, the export of glass to abroad was minimal and prevented by British "Enemy Act".

My explanation for "Made in Germany" is following.
In 1945 after the war the parts of Czechoslovakia, including Haida region were connected back to Czechoslovakia and all German spoken Czechoslovakian citizens (about 3 mio) had been expelled from Czechoslovakia to Germany. Many of them were glassmakers, the lack of glass-specialist was big problem for renewed Czechoslovakia. I discovered yesterday, that with this glass makers was transferred to Germany also know-how of making Egermann's pieces. The same had probably happen with this white overlaid clearly "bohemian" decorated piece.

I suppose that this piece has been produced after WWII anywhere in Western Germany by expelled Czechoslovakian Germans.

Jindrich

Offline chopin-liszt

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Re: Cool Story or No way...Czecho-Slovakia Perfume bottle
« Reply #2 on: February 03, 2009, 01:21:21 PM »
Nice bottle!
I'm not too sure about the 33. being an artist number, though.
Is there a number 33. also on the base of the stopper?

I ask, because stoppers and bottles have to be made specifically to match each other, (I believe the stoppers are actually made first, as it is easier to match the bottle to the stopper than the other way around) they are then normally designated numbers in this way.
Cheers, Sue (M)

Three Wise Women would have asked for directions, arrived on time, delivered the baby, cleaned the stables and made a casserole...

And there WOULD have been peace on earth.

Offline TxSilver

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Re: Cool Story or No way...Czecho-Slovakia Perfume bottle
« Reply #3 on: February 03, 2009, 04:18:52 PM »
It is a very pretty bottle. Sue brought up a good point. I have handled several old Bohemian and other pieces that had the numbers on the bottom. They were enameled vases and bowls, so didn't have stoppers. I was told that the numbers designated the decorator, and had not really questioned it before now. I wonder if it is a set designation, instead, to ensure that pieces placed together were the same colors and decoration pattern. (Speculating) -- This might explain why some enameled pieces have numbers while other similar ones do not. Perhaps some were made to be part of a set, while others were made to be stand alone. Does anyone know for sure what these numbers designate?
Anita
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Offline norcalglassman

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Re: Cool Story or No way...Czecho-Slovakia Perfume bottle
« Reply #4 on: February 03, 2009, 04:57:02 PM »
Good Morning, Thank you all so much for your wonderful feedback on the bottle.
The history was great, but then I do love History and try to learn from it. I checked the stopper this morning and there are no marks on it. I't does make since that the number would be to keep sets together or as a decorators mark.  The artwork is really fantastic. I wish I had even a small bit of the talent it takes to paint like that. Don’t know if you can see the gray shading around the groups of flowers but it really sets the motif off. Like them say it makes them “POP” lol.
Thanks again for your wisdom and time. :thup:
Tim 


Offline pamela

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Re: Cool Story or No way...Czecho-Slovakia Perfume bottle
« Reply #5 on: February 03, 2009, 05:07:05 PM »
Lisa and Tim, welcome to the board!

Jindrich, thank you - very interesting and I learn a lot from this !
I am d'accord with you, as the markings seem to be stamped etched, and 'Germany' looks like etched OVER Czecho-Slovakia? But still think could be 30ies production - has been taken 'ready' with them as you said and sold over-stamped later in Germany?

ending for French market then was -quie
Marcus, please, where are you ?

Pamela
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Experience teaches that anyone who begins to collect in any field can feel a change in his soul. He becomes a joyful man filled with a deeper empathy, and a more open understanding of worldly things moves his soul.    (Alfred Lichtwark 1852 1914)

Offline Anne

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Re: Cool Story or No way...Czecho-Slovakia Perfume bottle
« Reply #6 on: February 03, 2009, 05:24:11 PM »
Not that it will help much I suppose, but the stamped mark reminds me of the one seen on the Leroc decorated trinket set we discussed here: http://www.glassmessages.com/index.php/topic,1334.0.html
and the backstamp image is here: http://www.glasstrinketsets.com/cms15/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=151&Itemid=147&limitstart=6

Tim and Lisa, welcome to the board. It's a beautiful bottle for sure!  :mrgreen:

Offline chopin-liszt

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Re: Cool Story or No way...Czecho-Slovakia Perfume bottle
« Reply #7 on: February 03, 2009, 05:25:55 PM »
I do have a couple of (couple, not pair, ::) and rather poor quality) ruby-flashed and acid-etched old "bohemian" perfume bottles, which belonged to my grandmother (and I'm ancient), which have numbers very similar to this, with the full stop at the end. The numbers on each bottle match the numbers on the bases, and the stoppers are not interchangable.

But I had thought this was a very common and international way of ensuring the right stopper stayed with the bottle.

Perhaps, as this is such a lovely one, clearly very good quality, it might not have been made in a large batch of them, and so didn't need to be marked out in this way? :spls: I don't know.
Cheers, Sue (M)

Three Wise Women would have asked for directions, arrived on time, delivered the baby, cleaned the stables and made a casserole...

And there WOULD have been peace on earth.

Offline Lustrousstone

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Re: Cool Story or No way...Czecho-Slovakia Perfume bottle
« Reply #8 on: February 03, 2009, 08:12:12 PM »
Aren't decorator's marks usually painted on in whichever colour the decorator used last? Decorator's often worked at home and were paid on piece rates (even in factories) - hence the need for a mark. I would expect a "set" mark to be applied by the QC or shipping department when the "made in" mark was applied. Perhaps a chinagraph pencil mark was used to keep sets together before shipping. You wouldn't send a bottle plus its stopper out to a decorator. I too suspect that the bottle was originally destined for export to an English-speaking country and was then "liberated" for export via Germany. The US was particularly fussy about labelling regarding place of manufacture. A less than scrupulous exporter could claim a badly applied mark if questioned.

Offline norcalglassman

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Re: Cool Story or No way...Czecho-Slovakia Perfume bottle
« Reply #9 on: February 03, 2009, 09:29:19 PM »
Bingo, The 33. mark is in orange like the flowers. You have all made this California Beach boy {well that was many years ago} feel right at home here. We can't thank you all enough for your time and words of wisdom.
 :hiclp:
Tim & Lisa

 

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