Author Topic: Cool Story or No way...Czecho-Slovakia Perfume bottle  (Read 3479 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Jindra8526

  • Members
  • **
  • Posts: 995
  • Gender: Male
Re: Cool Story or No way...Czecho-Slovakia Perfume bottle
« Reply #10 on: February 04, 2009, 08:25:13 AM »
Dear Pamela,
I would not expect that this bottle could be fabricated in Czechoslovakia and transfered an re-marked in Germany in 30ties, but it should be true for 60ties.

From history we know the poor economical situation of Germany before WWII and the also strong position of Czechoslovakia. Remarking to "Germany" would not bring any profit to Czechoslovakian sellers at that time namely when to be "Bohemian" souded good. There is the evidence, however, that some Czechoslovakian goods including glass had been sold to "west" labeled as produced in Germany, Italy in the time of "real socialismus" here.

But anyway, I would focus to German producers, I suppose that simmilar I have seen in small museum in nice Bavarian town Zwiesel fabricated in some glassshop in surrounded region.

Jindrich

Offline chopin-liszt

  • Members
  • **
  • Posts: 8541
Re: Cool Story or No way...Czecho-Slovakia Perfume bottle
« Reply #11 on: February 04, 2009, 12:40:17 PM »
 :hiclp:

As you said, "Bingo" - if the number is IN one of the colours, it IS, as lustrousstone said, very much likely to be the decorator's number.

Sorry for sidetracking you all. :spls:
Cheers, Sue (M)

Three Wise Women would have asked for directions, arrived on time, delivered the baby, cleaned the stables and made a casserole...

And there WOULD have been peace on earth.

Offline Lustrousstone

  • Members
  • **
  • Posts: 11154
  • Gender: Female
    • Warrington, UK
    • My Gallery
Re: Cool Story or No way...Czecho-Slovakia Perfume bottle
« Reply #12 on: February 04, 2009, 12:44:02 PM »
I'm trying to be diplomatic here but wasn't a lot of stuff illegally removed from occupied countries to Germany during the war? The German mark is plainly on top

Offline Jindra8526

  • Members
  • **
  • Posts: 995
  • Gender: Male
Re: Cool Story or No way...Czecho-Slovakia Perfume bottle
« Reply #13 on: February 04, 2009, 02:54:03 PM »
I am not familiar with situation in other countries but here in Czechoslovakia it was quite clear.

Border regions - where the glassworks were mostly placed were connected to German "Reich" according to Munich's agreement between France, UK, Italy and Germany, so it that time it was not re-labeling or re-naming but really designation of country of origin - but as I wrote - typical it was in German language not in English. The international market was closed during the war, so I cannot see any rational reason to use English. Moreover the owners of the most glass factories in Haida region were German spoken CS citisens and connection to Germany in first years 1939/1940 was observed by them like positive and it satisfied their national wishes. The very special situation was with the properties owned by Jews, all had been confiscated and germanised. It had happened to Moser, for example.

Clearly is the situation described in Marcus Newhall's book.

The glass production during war was oriented to military needs rather than to parfum bottles, many factories had personal problems becouse men went to war. The rest part of Czechoslovakia was really occupied, German created there Protectorate and Slovakia had own state that colaborated with Germans. The glass industry had not same problems as regions directly under the German rule, Czech glassmakers that eskaped from parts of country annected by Germany had found jobs in inland. Note please that in 1940 had grounded Mr. Emanuel Beranek his glasswork in Skrdlovice, he was one from glassmakers who came from Haida (Novy Bor) region. His war production - so called "Skrdlovice antique" is very collectable now.

After the war was the Munich's agreement anullated and border regions re-connected to Czechoslovakia again. Unfortunately our ancestors had decided to "solve German problem" in Czechoslovakia "once and forever" and according to Potsdam's agreement they decided to drive out all German spoken Czechoslovakians, who were not able to proof, that they were anti-nazi active during war. So it has happened that the border regions were saddenly empty and were attacked by "gold-diggers" from other part of country. Some of factory owners were jailed by Czechoslovakians or Russians (Schlevogt, Riedel) and then expieled, tragical was fate of  old Podbira who was killed by "revolution guard".

Czechoslovakia had lost many skilled glassmakers and logicaly these people continued in their work in new homes in Germany, mainly in Bavaria. So it is very problematic to speak about stolen marks or designs, the last century was horrible.

Jindrich

Offline Lustrousstone

  • Members
  • **
  • Posts: 11154
  • Gender: Female
    • Warrington, UK
    • My Gallery
Re: Cool Story or No way...Czecho-Slovakia Perfume bottle
« Reply #14 on: February 04, 2009, 04:08:31 PM »
I'm not suggesting it was made during or after the war or that the war wasn't horrible. What happened to the stock that was sitting in warehouses awaiting export when hostilities broke out and could not be exported to the English-speaking country it might have been destined for? I believe French Champagne was confiscated and taken to Germany, why not Czechoslovakian perfume bottles. The German exporter who acquired the bottles might then (post war) have had them restamped for export so he could get a licence.

Business is not always ethical, and this is speculation but a logical answer

Offline norcalglassman

  • Members
  • **
  • Posts: 28
  • Gender: Male
Re: Cool Story or No way...Czecho-Slovakia Perfume bottle
« Reply #15 on: February 04, 2009, 04:53:58 PM »
Good morning. I am so pleased that this little bottle has giving us all so much info. The background Jindra8526 has giving us is wonderful and I thank you so much. I do love your countries art glass and the background of the wartime is fantastic. Who would have thought that such a beautiful bottle that is so far from its maker could start such a great thread. I know I have learned much. Lustrousstone I see what your says. The bottle was made and sits there as we all have learned in Jindra8526 History 101 class things were mixed up and bad at that time. So let me ask this. I believe the "Made In Czecho-Slovakia" in English mark dates back to before the 1st world war is that right? And was used up until when? I think the past on this little bottle may never be truly known. I’m so glad I found you all and once again, thank you all.
Tim

Offline TxSilver

  • Members
  • **
  • Posts: 2811
  • Gender: Female
    • San Marcos Art Glass
Re: Cool Story or No way...Czecho-Slovakia Perfume bottle
« Reply #16 on: February 04, 2009, 10:16:46 PM »
Tim, Czechoslovakia did not come into being until the individual states that made up the country were merged in 1918 after WWI. It was a merger that the citizens of the individual countries did not want, so it was an uneasy time. War World II, then Communism, brought about further changes that is reflected in the glass industry. Czechoslovakia was dissolved in 1993.

Before reading what Jindra wrote, I had considered glass labeled Czecho-slovakia as being from the c.1920s. Maybe we can have some clarification on this if our Czech experts are available.
Anita
San Marcos Art Glass
Visit the Murano Zoo
http://sites.google.com/site/muranozoo/

Offline Anne

  • GMB Tech Support Manager & "Board (never bored) Dame"
  • Global Moderator
  • Members
  • *
  • Posts: 11321
  • Gender: Female
  • I has a stick to poke the server with yes!
    • Glass trinket sets
    • Cumbria England
    • ALAVNA Vintage & Collectable Glass
Re: Cool Story or No way...Czecho-Slovakia Perfume bottle
« Reply #17 on: February 05, 2009, 01:04:05 AM »

Offline TxSilver

  • Members
  • **
  • Posts: 2811
  • Gender: Female
    • San Marcos Art Glass
Re: Cool Story or No way...Czecho-Slovakia Perfume bottle
« Reply #18 on: February 05, 2009, 04:05:07 AM »
It is good to have Jindra in the group. Thanks for posting the link again, Anne. It is a very helpful one.

I thought back on why I might think the Czecho-Slovakia may be c1920s and realized it was from reading what people wrote about Moser labels. According to Gary Baldwin in his books on Moser, he has the separated forms Tcheco-Slovaquie and Czecho Slovakia used on various labels from 1918 - 1920s (and after perhaps). I know this is probably easily explained. Loetz also used the broken form without hyphenation after 1918 according to www.glasscollector.net. In this case it may be because it fit into the oval.

Tim, great thread to bring out a lot more good information.
Anita
San Marcos Art Glass
Visit the Murano Zoo
http://sites.google.com/site/muranozoo/

Offline Lustrousstone

  • Members
  • **
  • Posts: 11154
  • Gender: Female
    • Warrington, UK
    • My Gallery
Re: Cool Story or No way...Czecho-Slovakia Perfume bottle
« Reply #19 on: February 05, 2009, 07:43:50 AM »
There is more info here, including that on the hyphen being used for a brief period post WW 1
http://www.pitt.edu/~votruba/qsonhist/spellczechoslovakia.html

 



This Website is provided by Angela Bowey, PO Box 113, Paihia 0247, New Zealand