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Author Topic: Thorn Vases — Help Sought (part 2)  (Read 1091 times)

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Offline Bernard C

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Thorn Vases — Help Sought (part 2)
« on: September 17, 2005, 09:17:06 AM »
Here is a thumbnail picture of the 16" thorn vases I mentioned in part 1.   Click image to enlarge (17K, 400 pixels high), or here to SuperSize (33K, 600 pixels high).

(http://www.bernard.cavalot.btinternet.co.uk/g5916a/sm_DSCF0006_crop.jpg)

The vases have uranium green five-branch naturalistic bases which fluoresce madly under my UV tester, as do the thorns.   Towards the base the colour is a fairly standard amber, so it must be an opalescent amber, similar to the amber pearline glass used by Burtles Tate and Greener.   The very bottom of the body of the vase is the original round round end of the body, perhaps pincer-trimmed, with a fairly intense opal shell.   No pontil rod was attached, so I presume the entire vase was made on the blowing iron.   The top of each vase is cut, lightly chamfered on both the outer and inner rim, and polished.   Slight random wear on these surfaces indicates to me that they are the original.

After I had taken the photograph yesterday, I made an interesting discovery.   I hope you can see it in the photograph.   The body of each vase appears to gradually change colour from the base to the top.    At the top the colour is a warm reddish-brown.   I had originally just put this down to a difference in thickness of the glass.   However, when I was examining the top surface for wear, I discovered that I was looking into plain amber, not a warm reddish brown.   The explanation is that these vases are ruby ("cranberry") cased in amber, rather than the more usual opaque coloured glass or clear uncoloured crystal.   The reason for the gradual change of colour is that the thin ruby layer became more and more stretched as the glass progressed down the mould.   You can actually see this internal ruby layer if you place a light source inside the vase and look through the cut top tim.

I don't believe the individual component colours of uranium green, ruby, and opalescent amber individually help with attribution.   Agencies such as raw materials representatives would have quickly spread the knowledge of how to make these colours as part of their sales and marketing effort.   However it is the first time that I have knowingly come across ruby cased in another colour to produce this gradual colour change.   Does anyone know of other, attributable examples of this technique?

Bernard C.  8)
Text and Images Copyright 200414 Bernard Cavalot


Connie

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Thorn Vases — Help Sought (part 2)
« Reply #1 on: September 17, 2005, 10:11:02 AM »
Dare I drag up this old battle again  :wink:

Bernard - I think the top of your vases could be considered plated amberina, at least as defined by Revi.  I do not have a copy of the book, but it has been quoted by several people on the subject of amberina glass.

The plated amberina is made from layering a cranberry or ruby glass with amber rather than a one-layer color stuck glass. This makes sense on your vase since you have the opalescent thorn amber layer on the outside.


Offline Bernard C

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Thorn Vases — Help Sought (part 2)
« Reply #2 on: September 17, 2005, 10:48:22 AM »
Connie — Thanks.   I was not aware of "Plated Amberina" before.   Both Haanstra and Hajdamach regard it as an exclusively opaque glass.
Quote from: "Hajdamach"
... In 1886 Locke patented a 'Plated Amberina' which was virtually identical to the 'Peach Glass' brought out by Thomas Webb & Sons in 1885, and enhanced by gilding and enamelling.   The 'Peach Blow' version made by American factories was identical to Locke's and Webb's glass in that they all used a base layer of cream coloured glass which was cased with the heat sensitive layer. ...

I thought that the essence of amberina was the use of heat to change colour, and that appears to be the case if you accept Hajdamach on both versions of amberina.   With my vases it is the mechanical stretching of a thin intensely coloured layer which causes the change, something quite different.

Hence I had not even considered amberina with respect to my thorn vases.

I was not aware of any "old battle"!

Thanks for the enlightenment,

Bernard C.  8)
Text and Images Copyright 200414 Bernard Cavalot


Offline Bernard C

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Thorn Vases — Help Sought (part 2)
« Reply #3 on: September 25, 2005, 07:39:25 AM »
Connie — a glass collector in the USA has sent me a photograph of a group of tableware and vases in Locke's 'Plated Amberina'.   This appears to be opaque, shading from a very dark amber to a light amber at the base, and is in a protruding spaced out rib pattern with a very high gloss.  The term 'plated' may refer to its being cased in clear uncoloured crystal to produce the glossy finish.

It looks nothing at all like the colour effect in my thorn vases in any way.

I can't reproduce the photograph here as it may well have been taken from a book, in which case it is probably copyright.

Bernard C.  8)
Text and Images Copyright 200414 Bernard Cavalot


Offline Bernard C

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Thorn Vases — Help Sought (part 2)
« Reply #4 on: September 26, 2005, 06:01:30 PM »
Quote from: grayhorse
Dare I drag up this old battle again  :wink:

Connie — was this about Webb's Alexandrite?   See topic Thorn Vases — part 3 — dating and Webb's Alexandrite.    It would be nice to know that I am not alone in not being wholly convinced by the theory published in Hajdamach.

Bernard C.  8)
Text and Images Copyright 200414 Bernard Cavalot


Connie

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Thorn Vases — Help Sought (part 2)
« Reply #5 on: September 26, 2005, 07:15:09 PM »
Bernard - Do a search on the term "amberina" on the board and read some of the old threads where we discussed the term.  The old battle, said tongue in cheek, was that I tend to use a very strict definition for amberina where others include other types of glass in their definition of the term.  It also appears that the definitiion varies from the US use and across the pond.

This is the thread I was referring to where Glen quoted Revi (which I don't have a copy) about "plated amberina" From what she quoted it seemed to fit your vases with the opalescent. 

http://www.glassmessages.com/index.php/topic,2195.0.html

Again, I had a more strict definition of "plated amberina" which follows what your US source told you.  Plated amberina to me would be amberina glass over a white body.


Offline krsilber

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Re: Thorn Vases — Help Sought (part 2)
« Reply #6 on: March 17, 2008, 09:57:24 PM »
I ran across this today.  Take a look at the very last item.
http://home.earthlink.net/~verredart1/glass/
Kristi


"The most beautiful thing we can experience is the mysterious. It is the source of all true art and all science."

- Albert Einstein


Offline Lustrousstone

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Re: Thorn Vases — Help Sought (part 2)
« Reply #7 on: March 18, 2008, 07:15:33 AM »
Kristi, your link just goes to the home page ... :-\


Offline krsilber

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Re: Thorn Vases — Help Sought (part 2)
« Reply #8 on: March 18, 2008, 07:27:22 AM »
Kristi


"The most beautiful thing we can experience is the mysterious. It is the source of all true art and all science."

- Albert Einstein


Offline Bernard C

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Re: Thorn Vases — Help Sought (part 2)
« Reply #9 on: March 18, 2008, 08:35:09 AM »
Kristi — Thanks for the link.   Yes, a thorn vase, but too many differences.

Bernard C.  8)
Text and Images Copyright 200414 Bernard Cavalot

 

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