Author Topic: Is this Consolidated Ruba Rombic? - ID = Gundersen Glass Works  (Read 4330 times)

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Offline Ohio

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Re: Is this Consolidated Ruba Rombic? - ID = Gundersen Glass Works
« Reply #10 on: March 18, 2009, 07:32:10 AM »
Regarding Pairpoint history in Billings book...its a bit confusing historically.  Pairpoint & Mt. Washington merged in 1894 as one single company....Pairpoint. Gunderson had nothing to do with the company until J & B Kenner purchased it in 1938 when Pairpoint originally went out of business. Gunderson reorganized the company in 1939 as the Gunderson Glassworks & it continued operating until 1957, however for all intent & purpose the company's production was sporadic after Gunderson's passing in 1952 & the original factory was  closed in 1957. Robert Bryden relocated the company, but didn't start production until around 1960 & some even debate that date. Billing's gives Gunderson alot of credit for a company that was running for 45 years under the name Pairpoint before Gunderson became involved. Also don't confuse Gunderson's production with Pairpoint production prior to 1939. Its like comparing apples to oranges &  Gunderson did not follow original Pairpoint manufacturing techniques. Not to say the Gunderson Glassworks didn't produce fine glass...they did, but again nothing like the original Pairpoint production from the turn of the century until 1938 so a molded piece showing up every now & then isn't terribly suprising. 


Offline Glasshound

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Re: Is this Consolidated Ruba Rombic? - ID = Gundersen Glass Works
« Reply #11 on: March 18, 2009, 01:07:33 PM »
Regarding Pairpoint history in Billings book...its a bit confusing historically.  Pairpoint & Mt. Washington merged in 1894 as one single company....Pairpoint. Gunderson had nothing to do with the company until J & B Kenner purchased it in 1938 when Pairpoint originally went out of business. Gunderson reorganized the company in 1939 as the Gunderson Glassworks & it continued operating until 1957, however for all intent & purpose the company's production was sporadic after Gunderson's passing in 1952 & the original factory was  closed in 1957. Robert Bryden relocated the company, but didn't start production until around 1960 & some even debate that date. Billing's gives Gunderson alot of credit for a company that was running for 45 years under the name Pairpoint before Gunderson became involved. Also don't confuse Gunderson's production with Pairpoint production prior to 1939. Its like comparing apples to oranges &  Gunderson did not follow original Pairpoint manufacturing techniques. Not to say the Gunderson Glassworks didn't produce fine glass...they did, but again nothing like the original Pairpoint production from the turn of the century until 1938 so a molded piece showing up every now & then isn't terribly suprising. 

Even though glass produced during Gundersen was of a different "style" it was still all "hand-blown".....sorry, no cheap mold-blown candleblocks were produced...

/Blair
American and European Art Glass, Antique to Contemporary
http://www.glasshound.com


Offline Ohio

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Re: Is this Consolidated Ruba Rombic? - ID = Gundersen Glass Works
« Reply #12 on: March 18, 2009, 05:04:21 PM »
Blair I emailed Marion Frost this morning...we go back a few years...he helps me out on Pairpoint/Union & Mt. Washington & I do the same for him on Cambridge/Heisey/Erickson & a few others so maybe we should wait before coming to any concrete conclusions. Ken


Offline Glasshound

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Re: Is this Consolidated Ruba Rombic? - ID = Gundersen Glass Works
« Reply #13 on: March 18, 2009, 09:59:48 PM »
Good idea Ken! It will nice to get a Pairpoint "Experts" opinion.....

/Blair
American and European Art Glass, Antique to Contemporary
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Offline Ohio

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Re: Is this Consolidated Ruba Rombic? - ID = Gundersen Glass Works
« Reply #14 on: March 19, 2009, 04:11:52 AM »
Hi Blair. Well I ended up being a bit stunned when Marion answered & I emailed another source (private) who is also a noted Pairpoint expert. It seems that not only did Gunderson use molds, but even pre-Gunderson Pairpoint used some molds. Now it wasn't alot of molds, but it was a stunner. Many stoppers were molded in both pre & Gunderson era production, the mold lines were carefully ground & the stoppers hand tapered for a proper fit, but the one that absolutely floored me was this one....virtually all Pairpoint ball connectors & Gunderson swirl connectors were hot formed in a mold for exact uniform size, spun when they came out of the mold, applied hot & polished when the connector cooled. Now Gunderson it seems used a few molds & neither party would be suprised if Gunderson era production used any number of molds for things such as the square bases you sometimes see in Gunderson bases & who knows what else. Neither party was certain on the Waterfall candlesticks, but again they would not have been suprised if Gunderson used a mold. Years ago Marion talked with the gentleman who was in charge of the molds when the old plant closed in 1959 & was able to purchase one of the stopper molds the gentleman still had. I guess this question really hasn't doesn't come up up often so because of this discussion we now know a little more about Pairpoint production techniques. I'm suprised & then again I'm not suprised, I mean Steuben has used molds for on certain pieces for who knows how many years & has polished off the mold lines, all the Steuben figural flower frogs, Elephant, Kneeling Lady, Diving Lady, Doule Fish, Lady in the Circle & Quan Yen were all molded so I should not have been caught off guard by Pairpoint's use of molds. Still the ball & Spiral connector mold did suprise me even after all these years. Well live & learn as they say. Thats what I've found out. Ken 

Offline instantinlaw

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Re: Is this Consolidated Ruba Rombic? - ID = Gundersen Glass Works
« Reply #15 on: March 19, 2009, 04:21:05 AM »
Hi Blair. Well I ended up being a bit stunned when Marion answered & I emailed another source (private) who is also a noted Pairpoint expert. It seems that not only did Gunderson use molds, but even pre-Gunderson Pairpoint used some molds. Now it wasn't alot of molds, but it was a stunner. Many stoppers were molded in both pre & Gunderson era production, the mold lines were carefully ground & the stoppers hand tapered for a proper fit, but the one that absolutely floored me was this one....virtually all Pairpoint ball connectors & Gunderson swirl connectors were hot formed in a mold for exact uniform size, spun when they came out of the mold, applied hot & polished when the connector cooled. Now Gunderson it seems used a few molds & neither party would be suprised if Gunderson era production used any number of molds for things such as the square bases you sometimes see in Gunderson bases & who knows what else. Neither party was certain on the Waterfall candlesticks, but again they would not have been suprised if Gunderson used a mold. Years ago Marion talked with the gentleman who was in charge of the molds when the old plant closed in 1959 & was able to purchase one of the stopper molds the gentleman still had. I guess this question really hasn't doesn't come up up often so because of this discussion we now know a little more about Pairpoint production techniques. I'm suprised & then again I'm not suprised, I mean Steuben has used molds for on certain pieces for who knows how many years & has polished off the mold lines, all the Steuben figural flower frogs, Elephant, Kneeling Lady, Diving Lady, Doule Fish, Lady in the Circle & Quan Yen were all molded so I should not have been caught off guard by Pairpoint's use of molds. Still the ball & Spiral connector mold did suprise me even after all these years. Well live & learn as they say. Thats what I've found out. Ken 
So My candlesticks are still up in the air? This has turned into a very interesting thread by the way.

Offline Glasshound

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Re: Is this Consolidated Ruba Rombic? - ID = Gundersen Glass Works
« Reply #16 on: March 19, 2009, 04:50:57 AM »
I think someone should email the author of that Peachblow book (Billings) and ask them why they attributed that candle block to Pairpoint...I have seen plenty of "mis-attributions" in my day! You can't always trust what you read in one book... ;D

/Blai
American and European Art Glass, Antique to Contemporary
http://www.glasshound.com

Offline instantinlaw

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Re: Is this Consolidated Ruba Rombic? - ID = Gundersen Glass Works
« Reply #17 on: March 19, 2009, 05:04:23 AM »
I think someone should email the author of that Peachblow book (Billings) and ask them why they attributed that candle block to Pairpoint...I have seen plenty of "mis-attributions" in my day! You can't always trust what you read in one book... ;D

/Blai
True, I once had someone tell me at a show that I would never get my price for a beer tray I had because he wrote a book on them. Guess what, I got about $200.00 more for it than I quoted him. lol

Offline instantinlaw

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Re: Is this Consolidated Ruba Rombic? - ID = Gundersen Glass Works
« Reply #18 on: March 19, 2009, 05:07:11 AM »
I'm still rooting for you though Deco Queen  :thup:

Offline Ohio

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Re: Is this Consolidated Ruba Rombic? - ID = Gundersen Glass Works
« Reply #19 on: March 19, 2009, 06:17:01 AM »
I have the Billings book & overall its pretty decent & accurate. The only problem(s) I've had with it dealt with a statement in the section in the World's fair items section where Libbey used the New England Glass Co. formula (whom they purchased) & they delve into a storyline pertaining to Libbey subcontracting with Mt. Washington/Smith Bros. workers to produce items & decorate them for Libbey in 1893. No documentation has ever been found to support this storyline & Libbey collectors are adamant that Libbey produced all the glass for the 1893 fair. The other issue is more of a "you've got to be kidding" issue...when they include Kanawha Peachblow produced in in 1978. No disrespect toward Kanawha collectors intended, but that IMHO stretches the bounds of credibility. The other issue has to due with how they address Peachblow as it relates to Pairpoint. The first section is entitled "Gunderson Peachblow" followed by the the next chapter "Pairpoint Peachblow" which I firmly believe should have been entitled "Bryden Peachblow" rather than Pairpoint Peachblow, but again thast simply my own personal preference. Other than those issues the book's not bad. I don't know if Gunderson produced any catalogs or not during the Peachblow production time frame, but that (to me at least) would be the one piece of documentation that would be nice to see, a catalog. I will have to say though that the color photo of the Waterfall candlesticks in the book matches perfectly with the Peachblow of other Gunderson Peachblow pieces. There is no information on how to contact the Billings other than the publisher which is Krause Publications in Iola, Wisconsin so if anyone wishes to pursue this further I suppose the only way to contact the Billings would be to contact the publisher. Ken

 

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