well, I'm all for full frontal pics. - so here goes. sincere thanks for all the trouble people are taking - and yes, probably the wrong angle on the first images. Certainly doesn't appear to be 9471, its much more squat that that particular shape, as mentioned by David Fletcher on wfrs.com. Have measured again (with calipers) and seems to run out at 62mm (2" and 14/16ths in old money) - although I don't know if the 2.5 inches quoted for 9471 was deadly accurate, or an approximation. Are we saying that the colour is o.k. for Whitefriars, but no available similar image to match it with?? I still think the base wear indicates something older that the early 90's. cheers Paul S.