Author Topic: Oval hobnail dish - RD.20355 - Percival Vickers  (Read 1002 times)

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Offline Anne E.B.

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Oval hobnail dish - RD.20355 - Percival Vickers
« on: April 15, 2009, 03:39:12 PM »
This looked interesting so I bought it for a few pence.  It measures 5" x 3ΒΌ x 2" and is clearly marked on the inside with the reg.number. 20355, which as far as I can find out is for Percival Vickers & Co. Manchester  :huh: 

There would have at one time been a lid which would sit just below bottom of the diamonds on the rim.

Any ideas what this would have been for?  A small butter dish perhaps?  Can anyone date it please?

Its in remarkably good condition considering how old it must be and a good as the day it was made.

TIA ;)

Anne E.B


Offline Paul S.

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Re: Oval hobnail dish - RD.20355 - Percival Vickers
« Reply #1 on: April 15, 2009, 06:08:00 PM »
hello Anne - for a few pence you have a good early piece of pressed glass.   I'm the least expert person on pressed glass, but like anyone else I can look in books and trawl thru the Rd. Nos.  -  and can tell you that  -  on the assumption you are quoting the correct No.  -  then the date of registration for this design was 14th January 1885.   I'm am not knowledgeable enough to know for how long after that date the mould was used, but you are correct in citing Percival Vickers & Co., and I undertstand that the piece is correctly called a Pressed Butter Trencher.    Pity you don't have the lid.          cheers          Paul S.         


Offline Paul S.

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Re: Oval hobnail dish - RD.20355 - Percival Vickers
« Reply #2 on: April 15, 2009, 06:12:17 PM »
sorry, shud have quoted my source of reference which is Jenny Thompson  "The Identification of English Pressed Glass  -  1942 - 1908".           Paul S.


Offline Anne E.B.

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Re: Oval hobnail dish - RD.20355 - Percival Vickers
« Reply #3 on: April 15, 2009, 06:41:25 PM »
Thanks Paul, thats great ;)  I've never heard of a 'pressed butter trencher' before, so googled it, and found an identical one in the Victoria & Albert Museum, but its not attributed ;D http://www.scran.ac.uk/database/record.php?usi=000-000-476-535-C

Interestingly enough its not shown with a lid either.  Is it shown with a lid in the source of reference you used?  I just assumed that there would be a lid originally, because the glass becomes thicker below the level of the diamonds on the rim, forming a very narrow 'ledge' at this point.
Anne E.B


Offline Paul S.

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Re: Oval hobnail dish - RD.20355 - Percival Vickers
« Reply #4 on: April 15, 2009, 08:35:20 PM »
No  -  I handn't heard of it before either.   Unfortunately, as far as I can see, Jenny Thompson doesn't give an illustration either, although by their very nature butter dishes always come with a lid (keeps the flies off, don't you know).    I had to go to the shorter O.E.D. for a half decent explanatoin of the word 'trencher'  - and wud seem that its one of those historic thingies - and which seems to derive from an origin whereby food - or kinds of food - were served in, or kept on, a circular or narrow platter - oftern made of wood.  I suspect that in Elizabethan times they might not in fact have had a lid (they probably eat the flies) and it was kept on a wooden dish.
cheers           Paul S.


Offline Anne

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Re: Oval hobnail dish - RD.20355 - Percival Vickers
« Reply #5 on: April 15, 2009, 10:15:46 PM »
It seems strange to describe a glass item as a trencher, as the dictionary definition of a trencher is a wooden board or platter on which food is served or carved.

Anyhow, in Jenny Thompson's later book, A Supplement to the Identification of English Pressed Glass  -  1942 - 1908 there is an illustration of RD 20355 dated 14 Jan 1885 which does not appear to have a lid. :)

BTW check your email Anne. ;)


Offline Bernard C

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Re: Oval hobnail dish - RD.20355 - Percival Vickers
« Reply #6 on: April 16, 2009, 07:43:38 AM »
Quote from: Anne
...    in Jenny Thompson's later book, A Supplement to the Identification of English Pressed Glass  -  1942 - 1908 there is an illustration of RD 20355 dated 14 Jan 1885 which does not appear to have a lid.   ...

But it's a quite different shape.  As with many patterns, once the initial registration was obtained, a whole suite was was created to match, all carrying the same number, but not necessarily all launched at the same time.

It was about this time that lightweight metal lids were introduced, initially EPNS, but later in chrome when it became available, and they were an instant success.   So I suspect your dish, Anne, featured either in Percival Vickers' Patterns of Moulded, Cut and Engraved Goods, specially designed for the electro-plate trade, 1893 or in an earlier version of this specialist catalogue.   Barbara Yates mentions this in her article in GA Journal vol.2, and notes that it was a staggering 25 pages long!!!   Enough here to keep the metalbashers happy for years.  Does your dish have a base oval locator for a metal stand like my Unusual Georgian repro from Molineaux & Webb?

Bernard C.  8)
Text and Images Copyright © 2004–14 Bernard Cavalot


Offline Anne E.B.

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Re: Oval hobnail dish - RD.20355 - Percival Vickers
« Reply #7 on: April 16, 2009, 06:15:31 PM »
That makes sense Bernard, having a lightweight metal lid.

For interest, here's an image of the base.  You can just make out the impressed reg.no. on the inside base, seen on the left of the piece.
There's nothing to suggest it would originally have had a metal stand.


Anne E.B


Offline Tony H

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Re: Oval hobnail dish - RD.20355 - Percival Vickers
« Reply #8 on: April 17, 2009, 11:49:07 PM »
Hi Guys

I have a Percival Vickers dish you may find of interest, this has had some help from the metalbashers, it is.

From Jenny Thompson
Rd 292506 23 January 1897 Moulded glass jam. (imit. cut round upper half, octaganal shape)

The tray has a trade mark for S.D.&.Co E.P.N.S. Made in England.

The lid was made just for this piece, I have another example of this dish and this lid will not fit.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v325/d554to/DSC03402.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v325/d554to/DSC03403.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v325/d554to/DSC03404.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v325/d554to/DSC03405.jpg

Tony H


 

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