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Author Topic: Baccarat or Chinese Pansy  (Read 1016 times)

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Offline tropdevin

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Baccarat or Chinese Pansy
« on: August 07, 2009, 08:03:28 AM »
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This pansy looks distinctly Chinese to me. What does anyone else think?

Alan
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The comments in this posting reflect the opinion of the author, Alan Thornton, and not that of the owners, administrators or moderators of this board. Comments are copyright Alan Thornton.

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Offline m1asmithw8s

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Re: Baccarat or Chinese Pansy
« Reply #1 on: August 07, 2009, 11:32:46 AM »
Chi

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Offline Kari

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Re: Baccarat or Chinese Pansy
« Reply #2 on: August 07, 2009, 07:53:08 PM »
Mais Oui!

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Offline aa

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Re: Baccarat or Chinese Pansy
« Reply #3 on: August 07, 2009, 08:01:20 PM »
Mais Oui!

May we what?  ;D

Seriously, may we have an indication of your reasoning......not that I disagree... ;)
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Offline Kari

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Re: Baccarat or Chinese Pansy
« Reply #4 on: August 08, 2009, 05:49:21 AM »
Historically, Baccarat was most famous for the pansy motif. If you look at lots of them, there are certain things that indicate a typical Baccarat pansy; much as you would recognize a Van Gogh as being different from a Monet. 

The Chinese made many copies - some very good - of  the traditional French motifs. This one that Alan has noted is very  pretty, but the swirling white ground is not usually seen in French Baccarat pansies, and  the colors of the glass are also different.  The more you look and study, the more you learn.

In short, if you are going to collect paperweights, you need to educate yourself on what you are buying. Know that this weight may be very nice, but it is not  an antique French piece, and you would not want to pay an unrealistic amount: $850. as opposed to $150.  I don't intend to sound condescending, but you need to be smart before spending money or you will lose money. Buying paperweights is best when you choose  something because you love it and it "speaks" to you, but there is also an element of intelligent investing so as not to be taken in by unscrupulous dealers.  Kind of like  doing research before buying a car or an appliance... 

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Offline tropdevin

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Re: Baccarat or Chinese Pansy
« Reply #5 on: August 08, 2009, 08:21:33 AM »
Hi Adam et al

I agree with Kari - it is always best to buy what you like. Sadly, I like antique bouquet weights... ;D

I think this pansy is Chinese for several reasons. As Kari notes, the swirl ground is typical of the Chinese flower weights that were copies of antique French and American weights. But makers copied the American swirl ground for both their American and French weight copies.  The facetted versions usually show NEGC style cutting with 'crow's feet', even on French pansy copies. Other typical features are the absence of  black lines on the yellow petals; purple dominating the lower petals rather than yellow; a rather 'fuzzy' appearance; and the symmetry of the Chinese ones - the small petals appear almond shaped and very stiffly arranged. Also, if the centre cane is clear, you can easily see whether it is a Baccarat stardust cane. Compare the eBay one with the two below:an antique Baccarat (left) and a Chinese copy (right).

Alan

Alan  (The Paperweight People  http://www.pwts.co.uk)

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Offline aa

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Re: Baccarat or Chinese Pansy
« Reply #6 on: August 08, 2009, 08:51:28 AM »
Thanks Kari and Alan. Very useful information. When do you think this was made?
Hello & Welcome to the Board! Sometimes my replies are short & succinct, other times lengthy. Apologies in advance if they are not to your satisfaction; my main concern is to be accurate for posterity & to share my limited knowledge
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Offline tropdevin

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Re: Baccarat or Chinese Pansy
« Reply #7 on: August 08, 2009, 10:52:34 AM »
Hi Adam

Paul Hollister (not infallible) wrote in 1970 that (according to Robert A. Elder of the Smithsonian) these copies were made in the 1920s -1930s at the request of American importers, but hard evidence for this is scarce. Evangeline Bergstrom had some Chinese millefiori in her collection, which she bought in the 1930s, but no Chinese flowers.

My guess is that these weight date to the 1920s-1930s.

Alan
Alan  (The Paperweight People  http://www.pwts.co.uk)

"There are two rules for ultimate success in life. Number 1: Never tell everything you know."

The comments in this posting reflect the opinion of the author, Alan Thornton, and not that of the owners, administrators or moderators of this board. Comments are copyright Alan Thornton.

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