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Author Topic: Cut Back and Gilt Vase - ID Help Please - French? ???  (Read 3560 times)

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Offline azelismia

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Re: Cut Back and Gilt Vase - ID Help Please - French? ???
« Reply #20 on: August 19, 2009, 08:46:22 PM »
I can't decide if the rim is polished or ground. it's rounded and flat at the same time. FWIW there is gold that looks quite original covering the rim.

 There is no way the texture is enameled. it's the glass that has that texture. the panel part of the glass is fairly thick. I don't have measurements but it's substantial. I don't know how they did it either. I plan on emailing all the existing companies I can think of  to see if they made it.  I sent off an email to baccarat with a link to this thread. I just found my camera charger this morning so I'll be taking pics and sending off photos to Harrach and  Poschinger soon too as they both produced high quality cut glass as well as iridescent and enameled. Steuben and Durand also did cutting and iridescent but they weren't known for gilt decorating although I suppose this could have been sent off to a decorator.



 there is a common perception that the french were the only ones to do large pontils but there are plenty of examples out there of bohemian glass with large pontils. ( if anyone wants to challenge me to do show examples I will too ; ) ) I'd be willing to bet I could find examples for America and England as well.


I am leaning towards bohemian myself on this. the example I saw with textured glass like this was American but the styling looks bohemian/Austrian

it could be French, but I can't think of a company who I'd peg as a likely suspect for it. It could be English too. Hell it's odd enough, it might be Russian and we just know nothing about russian glass companies.


Offline obscurities

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Re: Cut Back and Gilt Vase - ID Help Please - French? ???
« Reply #21 on: August 19, 2009, 09:08:20 PM »
My recollection was that it looked slightly ground at the very top, so as to be able to provide a definitive boundary for the application of the enamel on the rim. Alisa can also correct me, but I believe that the bottom border of the iridescent area starting at the rim and dropping to the upper shoulder has an expertly applied thin gilt line at the bottom of that area. It appeared to provide a transition line, or border, from the iridescent glass to the clear shoulder. The change from iridescent to clear in this area is a slope, allowing for the smooth area where the color transitions. The gilt line appeared to make it look otherwise. The panels have been cut horizontal to the surface in the main body, creating the thickness of the panels. As Alisa said, the panels are quite thick, I would say at least 1/8 inch, and maybe 3/16 inch. There have been large thick areas of class removed from this piece to create the clear areas on the body.

The enamel work on the piece was quite good.

Alisa, Please correct me if my memories of the execution are incorrect.

Hope this made sense....  Having seen it I can say it is a wonderfully executed piece of glass.
I have been told that glass is my mistress......


Offline krsilber

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Re: Cut Back and Gilt Vase - ID Help Please - French? ???
« Reply #22 on: August 19, 2009, 10:21:41 PM »
The texturing has gotten me very curious!  It puzzles me how lines could bend around the edge of the panel, as they seem to do in the lower boxed area of Craig's photo below (I hope it's OK with you, Craig, that I copied and altered your photo for illustrative purposes).  Alisa, can you post a close-up of the texture please when you take your photos?  One of the gilt transition between the top band and the clear below it would also be appreciated.  It seems like the border between the textured top band and the clear (under the gilt) isn't a well-defined straight line, as you would expect if it were cut - but maybe I'm seeing things!?  I can see that the panels are quite proud of the clear areas, but because their rims are gilt it's hard to tell from the photos how much of that is the yellowish part and how much is part of the clear layer.  

Is the color variation in the textured areas a result of different colors, or different depths?

Thanks to you both for the info about large pontils.

It's a beautiful, interesting piece, whoever made it!

Kristi


"The most beautiful thing we can experience is the mysterious. It is the source of all true art and all science."

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Offline obscurities

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Re: Cut Back and Gilt Vase - ID Help Please - French? ???
« Reply #23 on: August 19, 2009, 11:10:44 PM »
The line below o the edge of the panel is applied gilt decor done after the panels were cut. they are applied to the clear area of the surface that has been cut back.... 

Alisa can clarify for sure, but I believe the irregularity that seems to show in the image is actually the difference in reflective characteristics between the actual iridescent glass and the gilt line I remember as being there. A different angle may show it better... or show that my memory of the piece has failed me yet again!!

The differences in color of the panels is based on depth of surface texture and also slightly varying angles and the reaction to light at the different angles. The color on the textured surface is not deep at all, and appears to merely be a thin surface application and not a thick layer of glass.

The panels are quite proud of the clear on the body of the vase.  Likely more than any other ACB piece I have seen.

On a side note, I looked at the surface of the clear glass with a strong loop and the quality of the cutback work is quite good, showing fewer remnants of the ACB process than most pieces I have seen.
I have been told that glass is my mistress......


Offline azelismia

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Re: Cut Back and Gilt Vase - ID Help Please - French? ???
« Reply #24 on: August 24, 2009, 06:13:01 AM »
http://s248.photobucket.com/albums/gg172/thefiresidecat/aug%2021%202009/


this is a link to an album with a bunch of pics of this vase.


Offline Ivo

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Re: Cut Back and Gilt Vase - ID Help Please - French? ???
« Reply #25 on: August 24, 2009, 06:29:43 AM »
The panels are quite proud of the clear on the body of the vase.  Likely more than any other ACB piece I have seen.
On a side note, I looked at the surface of the clear glass with a strong loop and the quality of the cutback work is quite good, showing fewer remnants of the ACB process than most pieces I have seen.

Maybe because it is not ACB. Cutting raised panels has been a design feature in Bohemian glass since the early 19th century - and still is today (cf. Egermann paneled glass, early 1980s)
Ivo
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Offline obscurities

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Re: Cut Back and Gilt Vase - ID Help Please - French? ???
« Reply #26 on: August 24, 2009, 12:48:54 PM »
Ivo, Do you have any thoughts on a Bohemian company that may have done the work on this vase?

The panels on the brandy you posted are amazingly similar to the work on this vase.

Craig
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Offline Ivo

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Re: Cut Back and Gilt Vase - ID Help Please - French? ???
« Reply #27 on: August 24, 2009, 03:35:09 PM »
It looks like a showcase done for an exhibition - combining all the techniques in the house: ACB, cutting, gilding and enameling. I would think of Moser, Loetz, Rindskopf or Heckert - but I might skip a few obvious ones....
Ivo
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 New Book: The Almost Forgotten Story of the Blue Glass Sputum Flask

all texts and pictures (c) Ivo Haanstra.


Offline krsilber

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Re: Cut Back and Gilt Vase - ID Help Please - French? ???
« Reply #28 on: August 24, 2009, 05:20:29 PM »
I was going to say the same thing as Ivo about the areas around the panels being cut, not etched, but after losing two posts I gave up.  I don't see any etched areas on it.

Quote
The panels on the brandy you posted are amazingly similar to the work on this vase.
Panels in this shape were very common for a long time, and continue to be made today.

Thanks for the additional photos, Alisa. 

I still think the panels are enamelled because of the pattern of color variation, the little black specks in the yellow and the fact that the edges of the textured areas (covered by the gilt lines) aren't straight, as they would be if cut after application.  I also don't see any clear glass in the thin areas of texture; if anything, it looks white.  Is that correct?  (I say "yellow" though it looks more of a gold color.)  I suggest the areas were painted with white enamel then yellow, sprayed with oxides for iridescence, then tooled a bit while still moderately wet.

The Loetz-attributed vase looks to me like a better candidate for texture made by casing and acid cutback, though it's hard to be sure from the photo.
Kristi


"The most beautiful thing we can experience is the mysterious. It is the source of all true art and all science."

- Albert Einstein


Offline azelismia

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Re: Cut Back and Gilt Vase - ID Help Please - French? ???
« Reply #29 on: August 25, 2009, 03:43:23 AM »
the panels are not enameled. they are definitely glass thru and thru. You can see quite clearly thru the waves and the dimples are absolutely curved pieces of glass. you can see it. there is nothing else it could be. You've got two people here who have held this piece and agree that it's glass :)


 they have been making paneled glass since the 1860's (iirc) but I don't know how it's done. the black specks in the Yellow are dirt/soot/tar. I am afraid to wash this piece.

Ivo, an exhibition piece  would make sense for this piece. it's the only explanation so far that makes sense as to why they'd combine all these strange and overpowering elements in one little vase.

the loetz attributed piece is definitely the same glass house imho. it's the same kind of work just a slightly different texture and color of iridescence.

 

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