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Author Topic: Cut Back and Gilt Vase - ID Help Please - French? ???  (Read 3558 times)

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Offline obscurities

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Re: Cut Back and Gilt Vase - ID Help Please - French? ???
« Reply #30 on: August 25, 2009, 04:47:55 AM »
I absolutely support the observation that it is textured glass and not enameled. I held the piece and studied it for quite some time at the preview. It was the primary reason I went to the preview. It is simply less consistent looking because the surface was textured to begin with.  If you are seeing white, you may be looking at thin iridescence where oxides were sparsely applied, then through the clear layer underneath and at the opalescent white inner vessel.

The other piece which is attributed by Rago as Loetz IMHO is absolutely the same house...  but again, I do not believe the attribution to be correct.   

Craig
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Offline krsilber

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Re: Cut Back and Gilt Vase - ID Help Please - French? ???
« Reply #31 on: August 27, 2009, 05:22:17 AM »
Edit:  Oops, didn't see Craig's post starting pg. 3 before writing the replies in blue to Alisa's post.  I don't know what I'm seeing - I thought there was white mixed with golden, but I don't know.
the panels are not enameled. they are definitely glass thru and thru. You can see quite clearly thru the waves and the dimples are absolutely curved pieces of glass. you can see it. there is nothing else it could be. You've got two people here who have held this piece and agree that it's glass :)
Very good point!  I must be seeing it completely wrong in the photos.


 they have been making paneled glass since the 1860's (iirc) but I don't know how it's done.  The same general shape of panel can be seen at least from 1840, and other shapes go back decades further.  They are traditionally cut, but were also pressed; I wouldn't be surprised if they were mold-blown and etched as well.   the black specks in the Yellow are dirt/soot/tar.  Oh, I thought they were in the glass itself. I am afraid to wash this piece.
 
Kristi


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Offline Lustrousstone

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Re: Cut Back and Gilt Vase - ID Help Please - French? ???
« Reply #32 on: August 27, 2009, 06:44:41 AM »
Looking at all Ailsa's photos the method of manufacture looks quite straightforward. White/opal cased in clear, blown into a textured mould and irridised. Design/panels cut back and the gilding applied to all edges and the pattern. The design strikes me as "Egyptian"


Offline krsilber

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Re: Cut Back and Gilt Vase - ID Help Please - French? ???
« Reply #33 on: August 27, 2009, 11:38:15 PM »
That doesn't address the bit that has always intrigued me - the apparent blending of colors in the textured area.  There seems to be a texture that goes with that, and an independent(?) texture made of all the diagonal straight lines.  I was seeing some of it wrong before the add'l photos - I thought I was seeing white where it was just a reflection, so it's quite possible I'm seeing it wrong now, too.  Perhaps the little diagonal "gouges" brought white up to the surface, which was then tooled with a dark yellow layer?  Or frits were marvered on, fused then tooled?

Galle and Daum used an amazing array of surface decorations...I'd be looking toward French, myself.
Kristi


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Offline obscurities

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Re: Cut Back and Gilt Vase - ID Help Please - French? ???
« Reply #34 on: August 27, 2009, 11:43:15 PM »
That was my initial reaction to the piece when I first looked at it....  I personally still lean that direction.....  Especially the feel of the enamel work.... 

Craig
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Offline Lustrousstone

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Re: Cut Back and Gilt Vase - ID Help Please - French? ???
« Reply #35 on: August 28, 2009, 06:25:52 AM »
I think you're reading too much into pictures Kristi, there's no reason why a rough textured mould (cire predue) shouldn't have been used and those colours seem more likely to be the iridescence rather than frit.

BFWIW, French strikes me as likely too


Offline glassobsessed

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Re: Cut Back and Gilt Vase - ID Help Please - French? ???
« Reply #36 on: August 28, 2009, 07:35:57 AM »
When I read Christines's comment about it looking Egyptian I thought maybe not exactly but probably North African in influence and maybe further west. It struck me as possibly Moroccan or more likely Algerian in 'style' and if it was made by a French company this would make a certain kind of sense (French colonial influences).

John


Offline obscurities

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Re: Cut Back and Gilt Vase - ID Help Please - French? ???
« Reply #37 on: August 28, 2009, 02:22:42 PM »
That surface is iridescence....  and has nothing to do with frit....  The variations have to do with the use of a textured mold and how the oxides were applied....  I am going from memory here, as I was the Loser  :cry:  (under bidder), but the pictures exaggerate the variations in surface color above and beyond how it actually appears in person. (as digital images often do)

Craig
I have been told that glass is my mistress......


Offline azelismia

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Re: Cut Back and Gilt Vase - ID Help Please - French? ???
« Reply #38 on: August 28, 2009, 05:19:36 PM »


I still haven't seen any French work with this kind of iridescence. Galle and Daum were mentioned but I did a search and no iridescent pieces come up from them. Has anyone actually seen anything remotely similar to this from France or any companies that were working in a medium that used quality iridescence like this. From what I understand iridescent glass is not easy to do and this is especially fine quality iridescence so I wouldn't expect it to be from a company that wasn't highly experienced in producing this kind of ware. to my way of looking at it, we need to be trying to find a company that did a lot of iridescent work. Yes? I haven't been able to find a company in France that did a lot of iridescence ( in glass, lots did work in pottery) if it is France I am thinking it has to be a small studio not a well known company. If anyone can think of a french producer that made high quality iridescent work speak up. the fine layer of iridescent on legras and daum don't really count. I don't think that was very high end iridescent work. it's just a very fine sprinkle on the glass ala fritz heckert, (who also had very large pontils) I don't think that required that much know how.

another company that has crossed my mind is Poschinger.

I think it's much more likely to find the answers in Bohemia or England Or even America in a company like Durand or Quezal or something like that.


Offline Ivo

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Re: Cut Back and Gilt Vase - ID Help Please - French? ???
« Reply #39 on: August 28, 2009, 06:24:44 PM »
Do make sure you get to the glassworks of Robert Held in Vancouver (just a stone's throw away from Seattle) and see in practice what iridescence is about. Also try and respect the information given earlier. You might want this piece to be American, you might want it to be French or you might want it to be English - it still looks unavoidable that it is a Bohemian piece, using Bohemian techniques, Bohemian designs and Bohemian finishes.
Ivo
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