Author Topic: AVEM Tutti Frutti leaf dish?  (Read 1524 times)

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Offline obscurities

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Re: AVEM Tutti Frutti leaf dish?
« Reply #10 on: August 30, 2009, 08:53:39 PM »
Thanks Anita, that is interesting... It does not surprise me.

I do find it interesting that he does not associate the work with any significant house, yet Svazzo has one with, if I read the text correctly,  a partial AVEM label.

I have also seen pieces, such as the one I posted the image of, that I would consider to be significant pieces of work.....

Craig
I have been told that glass is my mistress......


Offline TxSilver

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Re: AVEM Tutti Frutti leaf dish?
« Reply #11 on: August 30, 2009, 09:16:40 PM »
Craig, I had asked him about the AVeM pieces, both in the title of the message to him and in the body of the message sent. I believe that it shows the difference in levels of collection. Mr. Heiremans is about 100 times more advanced than myself. What I consider really nice, he may consider insignificant. Most of the things we buy in the USA are considered tourist glass. They were made in large quantities for sale in shops and for export. One of the reasons I included my text was so people could see just what was asked. Otherwise, it would have been harder to interpret.

AVeM made a lot of tourist glass. There were a couple of designers of great reputation -- Fuga and Radi -- and a couple of masterful glass blowers, but perhaps they are not considered among the great companies because of their production of trinkets. I'll have to look to see if they were awarded prizes.

Or it could be because everybody made tutti frutti type glass, so he was just lumping it. Anyway... I feel like you when it comes to not being surprised. I never thought the tutti frutti looked like something Martens would design. The vessels simply look like pretty roll-up type vessels that any good glassmaker could do. I had a few tutti frutti vases (I call them scrambles usually) that had the AVeM label. AVeM and Fratelli Toso produced the better of these pieces IMO.
Anita
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Offline obscurities

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Re: AVEM Tutti Frutti leaf dish?
« Reply #12 on: August 30, 2009, 10:04:42 PM »
I suppose it is all a matter of your perspective.....  I guess I would hope that I personally never change my perspective to the point of considering a nice piece of glass to be "insignificant" based on who produced it..... 

IMHO It reminds me too much of the art world, where "who did it" becomes at times, much more important than the work itself...... and a really great work by a lesser or unknown artist is termed insignificant....  Also reminds me of a documentary I watched on a Jackson Pollock painting that the entire art wold was trying to disavow because of who owned it....  even though it had every earmark of being authentic, and a provenance which would strongly support the attribution.  The owner was not a member of the "art world".

Go figure....

I am glad to finally know that the Dino Martens attribution is a myth.........

Craig
I have been told that glass is my mistress......


Offline TxSilver

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Re: AVEM Tutti Frutti leaf dish?
« Reply #13 on: August 30, 2009, 10:37:44 PM »
I think from the speed of the response and the tone of the letter, he probably wasn't dismissing the glass, only saying that it was not designed by anyone of note. This is okay. It is still pretty.

Tastes do change as we learn more about glass. I remember at one time thinking that some things were really great, but now I wouldn't buy them. It is all a process of learning and figuring out what we can afford. I would love to have all the things Anzolo Fuga and Pino Signoretto made, but my wallet can only squeak out enough for nice enough lesser pieces. Probably most people are like me. On the Bohemian side, I would love a shelf full of Loetz phanomen genres, but I'll have to settle for Kralik.  :)

The tutti frutti bowl in the original post branched off to a completely different thread. Do you think we should split this post?
Anita
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Offline obscurities

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Re: AVEM Tutti Frutti leaf dish?
« Reply #14 on: August 30, 2009, 10:45:17 PM »
You are probably right about his response....  I myself have champagne tastes on a beer budget also....  but every once in a while I get really really really lucky and I buy top notch champagne for the price of cheap beer.

I don't think we need to split it....  we can simply leave it alone now as a settled issue....  I think we answered two questions here as well as they can be answered... Is the original dish AVEM, and did Dino Martens really design Tutti Frutti....  IMO, they are both related to the initial question....
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Offline langhaugh

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Re: AVEM Tutti Frutti leaf dish?
« Reply #15 on: September 01, 2009, 01:22:31 AM »
Anita:

Thank you for taking the time (and taking a risk) to ask Marc Heiremanns the question we've discussed many times. I'm not surprised that Martens didn't design it, and neither am I too offended by Heiremanns comment that the glass is insignificant. I take that to mean that it doesn't represent a technical or artistic advance. They've been made by using the parison to pick up some slices of canes and murrines and blowing the piece. While I agree that some pieces are prettier than others (the large example Craig shows is very nice), it's not a complicated technique and there's not much design involved. However, I agree choosing which canes and murrines are to be added, how many are chosen, and how they are arranged does make a difference to how well it looks. I don't think Heiremanns is saying the significance of the piece depends on the name. He's just very lucky that most of the glass he sees and discusses is far beyond our means. I've got a few oil paintings by local artists that I really like, but I think a world renowned art critic would see them as insignificant to the world that he lives in. However, they're still extremely significant to the world I live in. 

Possibly AveM did produce the glass, as did other factories. However, to me, the most important question is whether there is any artistic or technical merit to the piece in question. I'm not sure which made factory made it has much bearing to to the discussion, other than what it might fetch on the open market.

Thanks again, Anita. Can we live in hope that this might eventually change eBay attributions?

David

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Offline obscurities

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Re: AVEM Tutti Frutti leaf dish?
« Reply #16 on: September 01, 2009, 01:50:42 AM »
I doubt that the attributions on ebay will ever change regarding this glass....

As far  as the comment about the glass being insignificant, I am not offended by the use of the comment. I just think that it is unfortunate that anything people collect would be described in that way by anyone.  I personally would never do it, regardless of how high end my collection, my knowledge level, or my budget got...

I just think it is a poor choice of words.

How about saying "The decor is not attributed to any particular artist of note, although many companies made it." Says the same thing without risking an insult to owners of similar items.....

Probably just my extensive sales background at work.........

 
I have been told that glass is my mistress......


Offline TxSilver

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Re: AVEM Tutti Frutti leaf dish?
« Reply #17 on: September 01, 2009, 02:33:22 AM »
David, you said it so well. What you wrote is how I felt, but I couldn't express it. Thank you for putting it into words.

Another thing to consider is that English is a second or third language to many people. I often laugh when I get a message from someone in another country with abrupt or twisted language. Then I admire them because my only second language is... or at least was ... Latin. A lot of good that did!

My own thought is, isn't he kind to have answered our question. I admit to being star-struck, though I would never admit it, of course. I've always found his books to be thoroughly researched and helpful. And I've yet to find a mistake in any of them. I can't say that about many :-)
Anita
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Offline obscurities

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Re: AVEM Tutti Frutti leaf dish?
« Reply #18 on: September 01, 2009, 02:51:13 AM »
I agree with you regarding his kindness to answer the question.

I also guess I did not realize that English is not his primary language. In that case I would certainly disregard the word choice.... Especially in light of the fact that I do not have a second language..   

I also think that David's explanation of his answer is correct...  Better than I could say it also...

Craig

I have been told that glass is my mistress......


 

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