Author Topic: Is the carnival red?  (Read 1264 times)

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Offline shanbeat

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Is the carnival red?
« on: October 19, 2005, 12:49:02 AM »
I recently bought a 7-8" carnival glass bowl. Fenton, "Vintage" pattern with a candy ribbon edge. It looks red, and others have said it's red (I tend to trust their opinion as they have been collecting over 30 years). But then they drop the bombshell that there are many different SHADES of red. By itself sitting there it looks red front and back. But when you hold it up to light it takes on amberina qualities ( as in the center and edge stay red, but parts of the body are dark amberish color). What does this mean? Is my carnival actually considered to be red? Check the photos and let me know please!

Shannon

http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b53/shanbeat/Carnival/Fentonvintage.jpg
http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b53/shanbeat/Carnival/Fentonvintage-backnoglare2.jpg
So many things to collect and only so much money...


Offline Glen

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Is the carnival red?
« Reply #1 on: October 19, 2005, 07:17:36 AM »
Shannon - there are no dumb questions in Carnival. (There are some dumb answers though....and I have probably given a few of them  :shock: ) Ask anything you need.

First I need to make a request of you - can you take another photo? In daylight (outside if possible) - and please can you take the pic of the collar base (called the marie) at a slight sideways angle. I need to get a look at the colour of the base glass where it has no iridescence at all.

The base colour of Carnival is often very difficult to assess because the iridescence plays so many tricks with it.

Red Carnival is the colour of traffic light red. It may have traces of yellow around the edges or right in the very centre. (Reverse Amberina and Amberina respectively). It may also have opal tips (very rare).

There are some colours which look red but are in fact very deep purples - and they are not classed as red.

Yours is a beautiful bowl - and even more spectacular with the tight crimped (candy ribbon) edge.
Just released—Carnival from Finland & Norway e-book!
Also, Riihimäki e-book and Carnival from Sweden e-book.
Sowerby e-books—three volumes available
For all info see www.thistlewoods.net
Copyright G&S Thistlewood


Offline Glen

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Is the carnival red?
« Reply #2 on: October 20, 2005, 01:19:50 PM »
Will you be able to get a chance at doing a photo of the collar base from the side, Shannon? I would love to be able to give you a big YES on the colour  :shock:

Glen
Just released—Carnival from Finland & Norway e-book!
Also, Riihimäki e-book and Carnival from Sweden e-book.
Sowerby e-books—three volumes available
For all info see www.thistlewoods.net
Copyright G&S Thistlewood


Offline shanbeat

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Does this help?
« Reply #3 on: October 20, 2005, 02:41:07 PM »
I took the pics. I had to do it inside with artificial light as it is very cloudy here and I heard that isn't great. I am also putting a link to a photo of the very edge of the bowl hoping you can tell me what is up with the ribbon of "clear"? There is color on the very edge, but then approx 1/2 an inch down there is this ribbon of "clear" that goes all the way around and it is approx 1/2 an inch thick, and then the rest of the bowl is in the color. What's up with that?

Shannon

P.S. I am beginning to have strong suspicions that my bowl is not red. But I don't think it's marigold either, the color is too dark and strong in the reddish tones. Amber? Have no idea what the value would book (mind you neither is the candy ribbon edge).

http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b53/shanbeat/Carnival/DSC00469.jpg
http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b53/shanbeat/Carnival/DSC00468.jpg
So many things to collect and only so much money...


Offline Glen

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Is the carnival red?
« Reply #4 on: October 20, 2005, 02:56:19 PM »
OK, here's what I think you have got - but first of all, thanks so much for taking the extra pics. My curiosity was getting stronger by the hour (I am a bit obsessive when it comes to Carnival you see.....it's my passion (http://www.websmileys.com/sm/love/302.gif) )

I believe your bowl is Reverse Amberina. This is red glass that blends to yellow/amber at the outer edges. Pressed red is difficult to "strike" and hold as pure red. For an explanation, I'll quote from "The Art of Carnival Glass".

Quote
Striking is a fascinating technique used to achieve a special color effect.  It relies on the introduction of chemicals to the glass batch that will ultimately change the color of part or all of a glass item, when that portion of the item is reheated. The process was named “striking to another color,” or “striking” for short. Technically, striking is when the crystalline structure of the coloring agent alters upon controlled re-heating.

A good example of how striking affects the color of glass is in the highly sought after Carnival color, red. Shades of cranberry and ruby red had been created by adding gold to the batch, but this glass is usually blown, not pressed in the way that Carnival was made (owing to the fact that the process involved in press moulding affects the color). The breakthrough came with the addition of selenium to the batch (at Fenton's) in the 1920s that produced a bright cherry red color when the temperature control was exactly right.

Pressed red is a difficult color to achieve with absolute uniformity as it is notoriously difficult to strike. When selenium red is taken from the hot glass batch it is red. However, when it is then pressed in a mould, its color becomes yellow. Subsequent re-heating causes the yellow color to change back to red—technically, what happens is that the crystals within the glass are made smaller by pressing—this causes the color change to yellow. They are then made larger by controlled re-heating, which in turn causes the yellow color to become darker and go back to red (strike).

It’s not unusual to find a yellow shading on red Carnival Glass where the heat has not been great enough on that portion of the item being made. The shading into yellow is called amberina. Standard amberina is where the outer edges of the piece are red but as you look toward the center of the item you see an increasing amount of yellow. Reverse amberina is the opposite way round—the yellow tones are to the outer edge of the piece.

You have a beautiful and very special piece of glass, Shannon. Congratulations. It is lovely - and made extra special by that exquisite edge.

Glen
Just released—Carnival from Finland & Norway e-book!
Also, Riihimäki e-book and Carnival from Sweden e-book.
Sowerby e-books—three volumes available
For all info see www.thistlewoods.net
Copyright G&S Thistlewood


Offline shanbeat

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Is the carnival red?
« Reply #5 on: October 20, 2005, 03:14:29 PM »
Any stabs at possible value Glen? Even a best guess would be welcome at this point! Most people I have asked haven't even seen this kind of edge on a Fenton Vintage patterned bowl, let alone the color.

Shannon
So many things to collect and only so much money...


Offline Glen

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Is the carnival red?
« Reply #6 on: October 20, 2005, 03:28:09 PM »
Oh googleglobberyglugging heck Shannon. I HATE valuations....even stabs at valuations. I would guess MORE than you paid for it. And the value of Carnival is just so....oh......so impossibly difficult. Show me a book value and I'll show you a bunch of pieces that sold for more than that and conversely for less than that. (I hate "book" values even more than I hate valuations). And having said all that, Shannon, I admit to wanting to know what my glass is worth too  :oops: I am such a creature of contradictions.

Value depends hugely on condition. If it is perfect that is good. The value of Carnival also varies greatly according to the quality of the iridescence. If you have a knock-you-over iridescence that makes you gasp - trust me - it's going to be worth more than "book" value!

But of course, the main thing that affects value is where and when you chose to sell. The right auction, the right convention, the targeted private sale. The whole thing is a movable feast.

So, forgive me, I have to duck out here and admit to being uncomfortable with giving a valuation. It's just not an "off the shelf" piece to stick a dollar tag on.

I can confirm that Vintage is known in the candy ribbon (tight or fine crimp edge) - and I have seen examples of it.

Glen
Just released—Carnival from Finland & Norway e-book!
Also, Riihimäki e-book and Carnival from Sweden e-book.
Sowerby e-books—three volumes available
For all info see www.thistlewoods.net
Copyright G&S Thistlewood


Offline shanbeat

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Is the carnival red?
« Reply #7 on: October 20, 2005, 03:34:55 PM »
Cool. Thanks Glen. I recieved it as a birthday present from my mother in law, who told me she paid $150.00 for it. All in all I feel quite lucky as she feeds my addiction whenever she has a chance. Two other bowls she has given me are 2 4-5" sauce bowls. One is the waterlily pattern (in a lovely sapphire or cobalt blue) and two flowers (in green). All 3 pieces have absolutely beautiful iridescence, and I love to look at them. My hat's off to you, from one Carnival junkie to another (although there are worse vices to have don't you think?)

Shannon
So many things to collect and only so much money...


Offline Glen

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Is the carnival red?
« Reply #8 on: October 20, 2005, 03:40:49 PM »
Oh you have a wonderful mother in law. Will you lend her to me, please? I would like gifts like that. She has a good eye, that's for sure. And there is no doubt that it is worth A LOT more than she paid for it.

What a wonderful piece to treasure too, for memories and for what it symbolises. I find that is often a large part of the fascination of glass for me - the memories.

Again, congratulations.

Glen
Just released—Carnival from Finland & Norway e-book!
Also, Riihimäki e-book and Carnival from Sweden e-book.
Sowerby e-books—three volumes available
For all info see www.thistlewoods.net
Copyright G&S Thistlewood


 

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