Author Topic: a little bohemian mystery  (Read 4409 times)

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Offline Galle

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Re: a little bohemian mystery
« Reply #20 on: September 05, 2009, 06:04:45 PM »
I'll just throw this in as food for thought - there was another glass decorator in Karlsbad using blanks that I have always believed were from Harrach, and that's Tischer. Every Tischer piece I've seen, though, was marked Tischer Karlsbad, and was painted over opaque white or cream colored glass. I have never seen any documentation or background on the Tischer company.


Offline Mike M

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Re: a little bohemian mystery
« Reply #21 on: September 05, 2009, 06:10:52 PM »
Now that is interesting.

But would Moser have allowed them to mark pieces - Glasfabrik Karlsbad?

I'm still tending towards Moser -for that style of enamelling and wording on the label

Interestingly the shape and form of the label is very like ones done by Harrach

cheers

Mike


Offline Galle

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Re: a little bohemian mystery
« Reply #22 on: September 05, 2009, 06:27:35 PM »
Oh I agree with you, Mike... I just always find it interesting how these Harrach blanks made their way around. I have a Harrach piece on my website that is marked, and another piece in the same exact shape (different color) that is undecorated and also unmarked. I feel like I know for certain that the blank is by Harrach, as are many other pieces I've seen made with this same type of glass, but are also unmarked.


Offline obscurities

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Re: a little bohemian mystery
« Reply #23 on: September 05, 2009, 06:53:48 PM »
Mike,

I find it fascinating...

Since the words "Glasfabrik Karlsbad" are really pretty generic, maybe they could not control the use of such generic words, only the use of their brand "Moser".

Maybe the similarity of the label to a Harrach label could be explained this way also....  We are going to buy Harrach blanks and decorate them. Then we are going to produce a Harrach style label to put on the underside with our marks. And since we are a little "factory" in Karlsbad (or close) we are going to state that on our Harrach style label since it may not truly be a trademark of any kind....  Then if accused by Moser of anything they had plausible deniability......  

If there was a company called Tischer that there is no documentation about, there may have also been unknown decorators we know nothing of at all... until now.

Although it is a "stretch", it would not surprise me in the least.  

There are references to Moser pieces with only Glasfabrik Karlsbad, and then there are references to the same mark with the addition of the word Moser. Maybe the addition of the Moser brand was in response to other labels that showed up with the Glasfabrik Karlsbad on it.  Maybe they had to add Moser because they could not control use of the other two words.

Kind of like labeling something "Auto Factory Detroit", and adding Ford to it when Chevy came to town.

Why don't you send an image of the label only to Moser and see what they say about it...  Crop it so the glass is not really visible and see what they say about the label only....    Maybe tell them it is on a piece of "Moser" you own and was curious as to the history of the label as you could not find it in the book they published, or any others.  Ask if they have records indicating what the production marks on it indicated....  

You know... kind of the reverse of what you did here....  present the label to them under the "strong assumption it is Moser", ask them to decipher the label markings.......  then show them the glass..... if they ask.....

Could be quite interesting......

Craig
I have been told that glass is my mistress......


Offline Mike M

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Re: a little bohemian mystery
« Reply #24 on: September 05, 2009, 08:35:17 PM »
Hi

I might well go to Moser - but alas I've found them a little unpredictable at times (especially when its a hybrid ie Harrach Glass and Moser Enamel)

The interesting mute point is whether Glasfabrik meaning glassworks implies where glass is actually made or just worked on -Moser was the only glass maker in Karlsbad there were supposedly many engravers and presumable decorators'.

I'm with Warren I think Tischer -is unlikely

if only we had a time machine

meanwhile trying to work it out from the evidence is fun

Cheers

Mike 


Offline obscurities

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Re: a little bohemian mystery
« Reply #25 on: September 05, 2009, 08:48:31 PM »
Don't let them know the blank is Harrach....  Just send them an image of the label and ask them to decipher "Their" label for you.  Don't ask them if it is theirs. Just ask them what their label tells "you and them" about the production of "their" piece.   If they give you an answer claiming ownership of the label and associated production based on what it says.... then show them the glass....

Craig
I have been told that glass is my mistress......


Offline azelismia

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Re: a little bohemian mystery
« Reply #26 on: September 06, 2009, 01:12:58 AM »
to the best of my knowledge the art nouveau movement had started as early as 1890. I don't think it's impossible that this piece is from the early part of the nouveau era. I've seen other dual shaded pieces like this attributed to moser from that era. I am sure the shading thing is not a hard and fast rule of any kind, just most typically seen..


Offline Mike M

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Re: a little bohemian mystery
« Reply #27 on: September 06, 2009, 09:35:33 AM »
Hi

I was told once that there was a court case taken by Moser over Harrach using this colour way. (and that Moser keep it out of their history)

Its a long story but supposedly the 'solomans' Judgement was 'Clear down to colour' is uniquely Moser
'colour down to clear' can be anyones. -This does seem to hold.

Also the way the colour changes is different between Harrach and Moser -in these little vases you can see almost an edge to the green -in Moser the transition is much smoother.

The first appearances of Art Nouveau are hard to track-Tiffany was definitely producing very nouveau shapes in early 1892 and Bing opened his shop on Boxing day 1893 -full of nouveau. I'm not so sure when it would have hit Karlsbad. Maybe be these nouveau iris images were around much earlier -you never know.

many many thanks

Mike


Offline azelismia

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Re: a little bohemian mystery
« Reply #28 on: September 06, 2009, 10:43:45 AM »
one of the books I was reading said the glass shops tended to respond to trends within the week. (I am sure it's an exaggeration) but if they were selling by popular demand then it stands to reason they could have been putting this stuff out very early.


So if Moser won a lawsuit on the color on the bottom clear on the top clearly they were producing the stuff. that's a really interesting little tidbit. I wonder what year that was approx. I see what you mean on the way the color blends between the two. I had never really differentiated on that before.

So thanks for posting this  little learning thread here. :)


Offline Mike M

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Re: a little bohemian mystery
« Reply #29 on: September 06, 2009, 11:01:35 AM »
Hi

The story of the court case alas came with no date, heard it years ago - never had it confirmed, but it rings true.

The story started with the fact that Moser had been bored with all the clear blanks they'd had to buy-in over the years, so when they set up their works they started their obsession with colour. Early on they produced this colour graduation effect and were very annoyed to find it quickly copied by Harrach and others -ie within weeks. (BTW Moser did do for very special pieces colour to clear and back to colour)

I always assumed the court case was c1900 -1905. But you never know maybe it was earlier.

I must say from everyone's comments I too have learnt a lot (gotta go investigate Josephenenhutte better)

cheers and thanks

Mike

 

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