Author Topic: a little bohemian mystery  (Read 4419 times)

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Offline azelismia

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Re: a little bohemian mystery
« Reply #10 on: September 04, 2009, 08:49:58 PM »
eh, I did say tends.. As far as I am concerned there are no hard and fast rules about anything. :)

as far as Baldwins book though , I am unsure of how far to trust it. I am also unsure of how far to trust the Moser factory. I know of at least one Loetz piece he attributes to Moser in that book.

Moser and Harrach are easy to confuse and there are fake Moser marks out there.

the company claims all moser is marked. end of story.

I had a piece that I would have SWORN was Moser because of Baldwins book. The decoration is very very similar. When I sent pics of this piece to the Moser factory they said no way, 1. it's not marked 2. it doesn't look like anything we ever did.

on the other hand. I have at least one unmarked moser piece that is unquestionably Moser... so that statement was false.


I am not really going anywhere with this other than to state a new found distrust of everything Moser at this point in my education :) I don't know how much of either to believe.


Comments, are of course, welcome.


Offline obscurities

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Re: a little bohemian mystery
« Reply #11 on: September 04, 2009, 09:33:36 PM »
as far as Baldwins book though , I am unsure of how far to trust it.  ..... I know of at least one Loetz piece he attributes to Moser in that book.

The book was issued in the late 90's....  our knowledge has come a long way since then. It would not surprise me to find that he had mistakenly attributed two Harrach pieces to Moser. Especially in light of the fact that they are the only two images I have heard of that have Moser coloration in that configuration....

the company claims all moser is marked. end of story. ........
on the other hand. I have at least one unmarked moser piece that is unquestionably Moser... so that statement was false.

Possibly through age and cleaning the mark has worn off. (just a thought) Have you ever submitted images of the piece to Moser for confirmation?

I only ask because I have two Vallerysthal vases, and the enamel signature on the bottom of one is quite strong and legible....  the other one has a very very faint and partial remnant of the signature left. Side by side they look like they were produced together.....

getting back to these vases ....

Mike, you say there is a gold squiggle underneath, the same as the enamel... The images make the enamel look silver on the pieces... at least on my screen. Is the enamel silver or gold? 

Regardless of enamel color, I am sticking with Harrach as the glass house.... 

Craig
I have been told that glass is my mistress......


Offline azelismia

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Re: a little bohemian mystery
« Reply #12 on: September 04, 2009, 09:38:46 PM »
oh yes, I have thought of the wearing off theory and I think it's perfectly valid. I haven't sent it to them for validation, it's shown in the PMC. it's an intaglio piece. but the thing that made me trust them is that they didn't think it was perfectly valid. Everyone knows old marks wear off.... even acid etched can be pretty impossible to see sometimes. I have a Steuben vase that I know is acid etched. the seller was able to show it to us in his shop. Since then I haven't been able to find it again. I saw it though.. I KNOW It's there.



Offline Mike M

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Re: a little bohemian mystery
« Reply #13 on: September 04, 2009, 10:38:12 PM »
Hi

Craig - sorry the enamelling is gold but age and a little too much flash has made them look silver around the rim in the picture

Mike


Offline Mike M

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Re: a little bohemian mystery -with added label
« Reply #14 on: September 05, 2009, 08:11:42 AM »
Hi Folks

Thank you for all your comments and suggestions.

Well the weekend is here and I promised a label

Almost as cute as the vases and it must be 110 years old - almost exactly and don't be deceived by the photo it's about an inch across.

What it doesn't say is almost more interesting that what it does.

I'll add my thoughts later.

cheers

Mike


Offline azelismia

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Re: a little bohemian mystery
« Reply #15 on: September 05, 2009, 09:26:04 AM »
have you emailed Moser with it to see if they have any comment on the sticker? I think it was 1893 when they built their own glass house. Before that they did source from Harrach, of course it could also be moser by moser.

What are your thoughts on this piece?


Offline obscurities

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Re: a little bohemian mystery
« Reply #16 on: September 05, 2009, 03:37:24 PM »
Mike, Are you aware of, or have you previously seen any Moser work with a paper label of any kind?  Are they known to have used paper labels at all?

I find it interesting if one Googles "Glasfabrik Karlsbad" in quotes there are many references to Moser glass with acid stamps....   if you add "paper label" as an additional parameter in it's own set of quotes the result returned is zero. 

I guess my other question, as I do not know the answer... are there records of any other glass houses in Karlsbad at the time... even small houses?  What about the possibility of a small house adding such a label.  You know, a 19th Century knock off!!

All it really translates to say is Glass Factory Karlsbad...   Something we now, and probably then, associated with Moser production.

I am interested in your thoughts......

Craig
I have been told that glass is my mistress......


Offline Galle

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Re: a little bohemian mystery
« Reply #17 on: September 05, 2009, 03:44:49 PM »
Moser did use stickers that said only Glasfabrik Karlsbad, as documented in Moser, 1857-1997, published by the factory, sometimes in conjunction with other marks back in the 1880s to 1890s. The Moser book does not show this one, however. It could very well be an undocumented early label. I would recommend emailing the Moser glassworks. There is a contact form on their website:

http://www.moser-glass.com/en/support/contact


Offline chopin-liszt

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Re: a little bohemian mystery
« Reply #18 on: September 05, 2009, 03:59:40 PM »
 :o

And there was me, coming late to this, (but from the images) going to go with "something tacky and modern, a la Mackintosh, from a high street gift shop full of smelly candles".... :-[
Cheers, Sue (M)

“All things are subject to interpretation. Whichever interpretation prevails at a given time is a function of power and not truth.” Friedrich Nietzsche


Offline Mike M

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Re: a little bohemian mystery
« Reply #19 on: September 05, 2009, 05:35:29 PM »
Hi

thanks for all your comments

Time for my thoughts.

As many of you have said this is clearly a Harrach piece of glass -the way the green goes to clear is not Moser, its a classic Harrach shape -also, as many have pointed out, the colour goes the wrong way.

The enamelling is, I'm pretty certain Moser -I've had many pieces similarly enamelled but with added acorns -a Moser motif -(I was very interested in the Josephenehutte suggestions - I'm obviously not aware enough of their work)

But with that image I can't imagine this being produced earlier than 1895 more likely 1899/1900 -Its very Nouveau - years after Moser glass works was set up and supposedly they'd shunned other makers of blanks -I'd been told they even took Harrach to court over this colourway.

There was only one Glass works in Karlsbad, it took Moser forever to get the permission, although there were supposedly a number of other glass engravers. The label I'm sure is Moser.

So I think here is Moser, c1900 still buying in blanks from Harrach, enamelling them and putting on their labels -but without adding the word MOSER. I wonder what else they did not make themselves?

Now that's not in the glass history books

great little vases -possibly unique label -thanks for all your considerable expertise

cheers

Mike





 

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