Author Topic: italian glass jack in a pulpit  (Read 2406 times)

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Offline glasshunter

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Re: italian glass jack in a pulpit
« Reply #20 on: October 06, 2009, 05:15:00 AM »
Craig, thanks for sticking with it. you took me ferther than i could have hoped. just looking at the top the crimping and hevy iner thick white were these 2 with sume  simelaratys on  ebay  120368190945 and 390094435253 from the satin ring up.  thanks Bart


Offline obscurities

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Re: italian glass jack in a pulpit
« Reply #21 on: October 06, 2009, 05:45:52 AM »
Hi Bart, I looked at the two pieces you supplied numbers for on ebay, and I would agree that both of those pieces are early glass. The problem with this piece in comparison to those pieces was noted by Snesbit earlier. If you examine the crimping pattern on the two ebay pieces there is a quite well executed pattern to the upper vase portion where the crimping has occurred. The crimping is quite pronounced and is a pattern that includes all of the layers of glass being formed (if that makes sense).

In contrast to that, the crimping on your vase is quite crude and appears to be simply an indented line in thick glass.  This type of crimping on your vase, would be, IMHO a quality indicator that would make me lean further towards a contemporary production piece than a period piece. The quality of the crimping does not, to me at least, seem to be indicative of early production glass, but much more modern and rushed production......  It appears to me to quite quickly and haphazardly executed.

Additionally, the execution of the bubbles seems to be quite inconsistent, and there is a twist in the stem that I think also points towards fast production.... and not early glass...

Any one of the things I have noted could potentially be explained away as a single observation, but IMHO, the fact that there are several aspects of the design that point towards contemporary, I would have to go with that as my assessment. I do not know for sure if I would attribute it to being Italian, but I believe it to be reasonably contemporary....

Craig
I have been told that glass is my mistress......


Offline Lustrousstone

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Re: italian glass jack in a pulpit
« Reply #22 on: October 06, 2009, 06:35:23 AM »
Is it satin inside as well as out and under the foot? Is there much base wear?


Offline glasshunter

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Re: italian glass jack in a pulpit
« Reply #23 on: October 08, 2009, 12:55:25 AM »
Hi Christine, not much bottom ware maybe  the foot was blown from the top and then applied. i don't know wonder what is my next step is in finding a maker i got some great help hear. Bart


Offline Ohio

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Re: italian glass jack in a pulpit
« Reply #24 on: October 09, 2009, 11:31:38 PM »
Bart it's Ken. I'll tell you what it isn't, its not Mt. Washington & neither is the one peppermint JIP with all those crimps. Mt. Washington was into subtle folds on their JIPs not crimps. The Burmese one is legit as I did an ask a question for a blacklight test & received a reply it reacted. Personally I think there is a very high probability it's Murano so line me up for a whooping too. For those who don't live in the US perhaps you are unaware that thousands upon thousands of Murano high end art glass fakes flooded the US from the early 60's into the late 70's until actual researched references on art glass started surfacing from actual catalogs. Fake cut velvet, air trap, MOP, burmese, peachblow, coralene, tiffany, lalique, I could go on & on. They targeted the US because were were largely uneducated & gullible & we coveted this stuff with no questions asked...I do not believe they targeted Europe to this extent. Fortunately I think we are a bit more educated now. I think the vast majority of all air trap we see in the US is Murano...very few of our companies in the mid 1890's to 1910 made air trap & certainly not in the quantities seen today.  If you go through the latest of Shuman's US art glass references you will notice he no longer attributes air trap, MOP, etc. to any specific US manufacturer & Sisk's Mt. Washington Art Glass reference with probably 250+ photos shows only one example of quilted AKA air trap Mt. Washington & these are 21st century references up to date in cooperation with private collectors & the better museum collections. Murano craftsmen/blowers were & still are are more than capable of mimicking a multitude of art glass designs especially air trap which is not exactly rocket science to them. My opinion only.       


Offline glasshunter

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Re: italian glass jack in a pulpit
« Reply #25 on: October 10, 2009, 02:11:20 AM »
Hi ken, thanks for taking a look i didn't know what air trap meant till this a few days ago but i do now.  i bought it thinking it was Italian. to me up close it is just bubbles in the glass deep not at the serface and not air trap some one thought it had the appearance of air trap more then likely my bad pictures. oh well just another lump of crap in my collection. see you Friday.      thanks bart


Offline TxSilver

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Re: italian glass jack in a pulpit
« Reply #26 on: October 10, 2009, 03:49:52 AM »
Bart, not crap. Just a variation on a theme. Glass people around the world have adopted each others' techniques throughout time. I also thought your vase might be Italian, but I didn't know. One company that did various "imitations" of the English and American styles was Fratelli Toso 1940s-60s. The pieces are usually undocumented and label-free. Occasionally one stumbles across one with a label. I've learned that one can spend days and weeks researching some of the pieces and come up with no results. I still wonder who might have done some of the pseudo-Burmese pieces that I have seen.

I think your vase is a fine one. There is one thing that would have made it better, IMO, and that would have been to have the ring flow into the rest of the foot. That is a bit awkward, isn't it? I have to speak up and say that I think it is a pretty vase and definitely not a lump of crap. :)
Anita
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Offline KevinH

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Re: italian glass jack in a pulpit
« Reply #27 on: October 10, 2009, 04:49:07 AM »
Bart said:
Quote
to me up close it is just bubbles in the glass deep not at the serface and not air trap some one thought it had the appearance of air trap more then likely my bad pictures.

The foot of the vase does look like it has "just bubbles in the glass", but if you look more closely you will see shadowy outlines of the diamond pattern. It's just that the foot was not as well air trapped as the body. The body does show a diamond air trap pattern and the neck has the very typical stretching of the pattern that comes with the lengthening of the diamonds. Take a look at any air trap item that has a lengthening of part of the work and you will see the same effect - and it looks just the same even if the pattern is "herringbone" rather than diamonds. My English herringbone (non-satin) air trap vase shows the effect pretty well. Mine is one of a pair, virtually identical to a smaller one with only one handle shown some years ago in the V&A museum and labelled as "Stourbridge".

As Anita says, yours is not a crap item. It's a good example of that style which I also think is more likely Murano than English or American ... but ???

And if anyone really does judge the "desirability" of such items by the thousand dollar prices asked on eBay for some of them, then perhaps I should offer my pair for sale - and make a really good profit. ::)
KevinH


Offline Ohio

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Re: italian glass jack in a pulpit
« Reply #28 on: October 10, 2009, 06:03:20 AM »
Bart definately not crap. These sell pretty well no matter who/whom made them as long as the quality is decent & your looks pretty decent to me. I know you've seen them in our malls in Central Ohio & if priced not terribly high they don't last long...they are a favorite. Ken


Offline Ohio

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Re: italian glass jack in a pulpit
« Reply #29 on: October 10, 2009, 06:20:51 AM »
"I still wonder who might have done some of the pseudo-Burmese pieces that I have seen." There are two types of Murano Burmese, the older late 50's type is pretty darn good quality while the ones from the mid 60's through mid 70's almost always shade to beige/tan & in most cases the shading runs triple...in other words you will have pink shading to a pale gold then further down the piece shade to a light beige/tan. Good news is that of all the Murano I've tested (both periods) not a single example reacts...no Uranium Oxides...that is their flaw. I give a few presentations on art glass to glass groups & carry with me a legit Mt. Washington Burmese piece plus an example of the good quality 50's Murano Burmese (complete with a reproduction Mt. Washington label) & an example of the later Murano. One the good quality copy if you don't carry a blacklight, you always look for a tiny area of streaking that is whitish & it can be a razor thin line so you have to look the piece over very carefully. They had color breakdown on their reheat & its visible on most pieces of the good stuff. On the 2nd stuff...well its pretty easy...if you see light beige its 2nd generation. Ken 

 

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