many thanks Christine - I recall reading elsewhere (can't remember where, but it might have been one of the Miller's books) that some other well known factory used this word on a glass item just to get round the tax issue. I have had a look in the search bank and seen some of the interesting notes on the Matthey Crinkles, so thanks for that - very interesting - quite remarkable how iconically (probably no such word) mid (ish) C 20 they look, although believe David Encill has commented that they had their origins in the early 1930's. Anyway, I will carry on looking and try your suggestions. As a touch typist, don't think I have 'troule' with this word, but looking at the screen and sending fingers over to letters like 'y or b is always a pain - likewise little pinkies don't seem to like the z and q. thanks again. Paul S.