Topic: Help please in identifying this decanter

[andy666]

 Hello , i wonder if you would be able to help me identify this decanter
. I thought that it may be whitefriars as it has a millefiore stopper ,
but i have posted it on whitefriars.com and they have voted no but left
no comments . I thought that it may be the cm637 but the engraving on
the bottle is different to the one in the catolouge.
  The measurements are :
Height (with stopper): 9.5"
Height (without stopper): 7.5"
Width  : 4" (square decanter)
Stopper Height : 3.25"
Stopper Diamiter : 3"

[keith]

Are there any numbers on the base of the stopper and on the base of the decanter that match,you get this sometimes,it's just that the stopper looks like Caithness and can't remember ever seeing a stopper like that with a 'cut' decanter but you never know,Keith.

[andy666]

There is a 3 etched on the neck of the decanter but there is not one on the stopper ? Here are two pictures of the stopper .

[Bernard C]

Andy — Manufacturer specialists can be rather rigid in their interpretation of information.

In general, a catalogue showing every cut pattern, size and shape combination would have been so big as to become both useless and too expensive to produce.   British trade catalogues illustrated shapes and cut patterns separately.   So, in the main, a well known cut pattern would be chosen and shown in the variety of shapes and sizes, together with one or two examples of each of the other cut patterns available.   An order would comprise a shape from the first set "Blank X" cut either in the pattern shown on "Y" or in the pattern supplied by the customer.

So, for example, my Clyne Farquharson Signed Range Rainsford atomiser could have been specifed as:

Blank W14702 cut as A5709, or

Blank W14702 cut with the Rainsford pattern.

So the cut pattern itself does not disqualify it as Whitefriars.   I can't comment on the millefiori work stopper — not my interest area.   The only other aspect which should be taken into consideration is the apparent imprecision of the cutting towards the base — not what you would have expected from Whitefriars.   This doesn't necessarily disqualify it as Whitefriars, as I am sure apprentice and Friday afternoon pieces found their way past the Whitefriars inspectors, as I've seen with both Walsh and Webb, but it's unusual.

Bernard C.  

[Lustrousstone]

A top view of the stopper would help in identifying the canes, also posting it on the PW board

[andy666]

Here is a picture of the top of the stopper as requested and i will also post it over in the pw section to see if they will be able to id the canes ?

[nigel benson]

Andy,

I can understand why you thought Whitefriars, indeed it was my initial thought. However, having checked the catalogues there is nothing with the same pattern of cutting on it (it is not engraving).

I thought that it may be the cm637 but the engraving on
the bottle is different to the one in the catolouge

Many manufacturers made this form of decanter, so it really isn't a good idea to 'super-impose' a pattern onto a given manufacturer just because it is similar.

Most trade catalogues will give you the information you need. As Bernard outlines, cut patterns can be seen on other items within the catalogue, making it more likely the piece you're looking for could have been ordered with that cut, rather than the one(s) shown on that shape. Again this doesn't seem to happen for your piece within the W/F's catalogues, hence it is unlikely to be Whitefriars.

However it will be interesting to see if the canes can be identified - it may confound or confirm :huh:

Nigel

[johnphilip]

My gut feeling is it will turn out to be Whitefriars , are the canes set on a button Andy , if you look at the bottom of the stopper and feel it and there is a separate piece of clear glass around the inner part holding the canes thats what i mean by a button if so it is almost certainly WFs . i hope this makes sense as i am just finishing a nice bottle of claret , practising for new year .
                   HAPPY NEW YEAR ALL . :chky: :dance: :band: :pty: :love: :cheers:

[andy666]

Yes the canes are set on a button . here are 2 pictures of the bottom of the stopper .

[andy666]

Over on the PW section they are saying that the canes are WHITEFRIARS and that they are pre CAITHNESS .

One forum member says that he has got a decanter with a millefiore stopper and he is going to post a picture for comparison , so i hopefully be able to find out if it is WF