Topic: Burtles, Tate & Co black glass salt cellar?

[Della]

Hi all,
Found this today and I know that is was made by Burtles, Tate & Co, but what is it actually. Am I correct in thinking that it is a salt cellar?
I have scoured the internet, but just keep finding references to swans and elephants.
The Rd. No. dates it to 29-08-1907.

Again,
TIA,
Della
xx

[Anne]

Della, yes, Jenny Thompson's book The Identification of English Pressed Glass 1842-1908 gives this as a "Design for salt cellar (scuttle shape)" - there's a drawing of it as well as the RD no. details - page 38 if you can access a copy.

[Della]

Thank you so much, Anne. 

[jsmeasell]

Very nice item! My wife and I would like to have one, also! Here in the states, several companies made "coal hod" novelties in the 1880s-90s (these look rather like round buckets and had wire handles and are pictured in Sanford's book on Victorian novelties, p. 145). The L. G. Wright Glass Co. had a mould made for a "Coal Hod ashtray" in 1963, and its overall shape is quite similar to the Burtles Tate piece (the Wright piece has a wire bail and is shown in the L. G. Wright book, p. 121).

[Bernard C]

I have been quite fortunate in acquiring a Burtles Tate Coal Scuttle recently — it's the first I have seen.   I have put several images on GlassGallery for comparison with Della's example.   Link: http://glassgallery.yobunny.org.uk/displayimage.php?pos=-18575 and click any image to enlarge.

Notice:
   1. Any colour you like as long as it's black!
   2. Both examples exhibit a similar slight depression of the top rim near the handle, so it is apparently constant.   Is this indicative of difficulty removing the coal scuttle from its mould?   Could this explain its rarity?
   3. The very short moulded pivot each side, showing that these were not designed to have been fitted with wire handles.

Bernard C. 

[jsmeasell]

After some three years, my wife and I now have one of these. I bought it (12 quid before discount) at Stafford in late January when I was in England for about two weeks doing some research on the Stourbridge School of Art 1850-1905. Designed as a salt cellar, but it certainly could be used for matches or toothpicks and it would be nice to know if it was ever so marketed.

The mould would be interesting, as the plunger must be vertical to move in and out, so the base of the glass item will not be at horizontal when the two-part mould is opened; the item might stay in the mould, but the turning out worker would have to look sharp.

Ours does not have the "depression" that is easily seen in Bernard's photos. I suspect that the depression is actually what we call "run down" in the glass industry. The item is still quite hot, so that area may sag a bit. Incidentally, black glass is a soft glass, retains heat, and is slower to "set up." Consequently, the glassworkers know to "go slow," and they are required to make fewer pieces (the move) in a four-hour turn than they would make using a different glass color.   
 

[Paul S.]

we've had them here before - unfortunately Bernard's link is not working for me............I don't know whether Bernard looked at the Board's search facility, but the following link may be of interest  -  and they certainly don't appear in black only  -  unless that was a humorous comment about coal dust
http://www.glassmessages.com/index.php/topic,40437.msg223807.html#msg223807

[Bernard C]

James — Grateful thanks for that clear authoritative explanation.

Paul — Unfortunately this board search does not pick up homophones and other minor variants, so I was unaware of your blue example until you posted above.   I had wondered about examples in amber, matching wood, brass, and copper coal scuttles.

Bernard C. 

[Paul S.]

that is a valid point Bernard, and for the benefit of future searches shall be grateful if the Mods will please correct the spelling in my original subject heading to read Scuttle  -  I should have picked this up much earlier.       thanks.

I notice that a similar depression occurs on Della's example - mine however, is like James' and is without this particular fault, although there is a 2mm 'fin' projecting from the seam at the front of the base, caused by poor mould alignment.       

[jsmeasell]

Paul's mention of "fin" bids me to add some information. The challenge in making small novelty items is for the gather and presser to get the proper weight of glass dropped into the mould. Too little, and the piece will be "not full." Too much, and you'll get "press out" and/or "press up" (glass industry terms for those "fins"). If the mould joints are worn and/or the ring does not fit properly, press out or press up can result even if the weight is OK. A bit of press up or press out can be cured by glazing the item after it comes out of the mould, but our example, which has very minor fins, was definitely not glazed.