Author Topic: S&W Keith Murray ?  (Read 1883 times)

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Offline paradisetrader

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S&W Keith Murray ?
« on: November 09, 2005, 11:33:33 AM »
Here is my one and only cut glass piece bought as a reference, to teach me how to recognise cut when I feel it and see it and this one sure is sharp.
It would be nice to know something about it as I have been unable to find anything similar despite some exhausive searching.

{Mod: Picture has gone, may be replaced at a later date.

Knowing nothing about cut glass makers I latched onto something written somewhere along the lines that Keith Murray produced some geometric designs for S&W back in the 30's I believe. Reading Bernard's and others comments on that subject in other topics here it seems doubtful I shall ever know but at least it could perhaps be ruled out of that particular little wish.
Thanks
Pete


Offline Ivo

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S&W Keith Murray ?
« Reply #1 on: November 09, 2005, 11:58:32 AM »
Ay it is a nice piece and especially simple - the shape is straightforward conical not curved, and the cuts are as straight as can be - little technical challenge in that. I have a feeling you'd have better luck chasing after Webb patterns than after the elusive KM...
Ivo
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Sklounion

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S&W Keith Murray ?
« Reply #2 on: November 09, 2005, 12:06:33 PM »
Peter,
Try this link which suggests there was a Murray/S&W exhibition at Broadfield House in 2001?
http://www.keithmurray.co.uk/news/index.shtml
Regards,
Marcus


Offline Frank

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S&W Keith Murray ?
« Reply #3 on: November 09, 2005, 12:54:46 PM »
Webb...

Very slight similarity to items in the 48005 Richly Cut Pattern (1957) but not close enough.  The similarity is in the division into squares but in this pattern only rows differ and apart from the hobnail panels the cutting is of traditional style.

No similar vase shape. But that is only one year.
Frank A.
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Offline paradisetrader

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S&W Keith Murray ?
« Reply #4 on: November 09, 2005, 01:57:43 PM »
Thanks Marcus

If you remember Frank, about a year ago I asked John Smith at Mallets if all Keith Murray was always signed as insisted at the Keith Murray website. He replied in the negative. Bernard has also said as much in that same topic (above). That's what kept my wishful wanna-be alive but before I got on to Broadfield House and made an idiot of myself I wanted to be a little more sure of the possibilty.

Frank you also noted there noted there that "Parkington had a lot of KM that is not listed in Part II, cannot find Part I. If it is not in there then it went straight to Broadfield House." Donated ?

David Encill frequently points out that Webb is marked. Certainly a lot of it is. Maybe Nigel or Bernard can say if there are pieces which have been reliably ID'd which aren't. This vase is completely unmarked - I have checked many times.

Your date is interesting ....apart from the wish of 30's Marray my thoughts stylistically would be 60's.

The division into squares similarity with that Webb design seems a tenuous link ...........or is it ? I am such a dunce at this sort of glass I really don't know. Thanks for you input anyway.
Pete


Offline KevinH

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S&W Keith Murray ?
« Reply #5 on: November 09, 2005, 02:42:40 PM »
Nice vase - simple and effective.

Reminds me somewhat of a 1937 commemorative vase I have that is of straight sloping form, 30 cm tall, 15 cm diameter at the rim, 1 cm thick. The cut pattern is essentially long vertical oblongs formed from simple mitres with double-mitred banding near the rim. After a lot of looking, I found an almost invisible etched mark on the edge of the foot ...

... "Stuart England".

Just a thought.
KevinH


Offline Frank

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S&W Keith Murray ?
« Reply #6 on: November 09, 2005, 03:27:29 PM »
I had plenty of recognisable Webb that was unsigned. Most went into the Parkington collection. Also had an unsigned Rembrandt Guild as per the Black cased cut to clear one from BGBtW and have seen two or three others unmarked - infact the only marked on of those was the one in the book.

I think a lot of people just say that if a piece is marked in a book, that it is always marked. It certainly made it harder to sell unmarked in pre-internet days.
Frank A.
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Offline paradisetrader

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S&W Keith Murray ?
« Reply #7 on: November 09, 2005, 03:49:40 PM »
Thanks Kev
Yours is significantly larger - and footed ?
Any chance of a pic ?
This vase is cm - H 20.5 x Dia 12 x 0.5 thickness

Frank
Thank you !
Pete


Offline nigel benson

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S&W Keith Murray
« Reply #8 on: November 09, 2005, 07:36:19 PM »
Hi All,

I can say quite categorically that NOT all pieces of Keith Murray glass were marked with the facsimalie mark - despite the fact that it is written in a number of places to the contrary.

I sold a number of pieces to Micheal Parkington for his collection, many of which were unmarked, some of which were in the Exhibition referred to above. You will not find any references to these in the Christies sales catalogues, since all the Keith Murray, along with more than 500 other items of glass, was left to Broadfield house Glass Museum by Micheal's wife, Peggy, when she died.

Interestingly, there is currently another thread about a piece of glass marked 'Asprey', with a registration mark. Unlike that situation, where the shop, Asprey, required there own mark to be put on by the manufacturer, on many other occasions shops (like Liberty's) specifically asked for the manufacturer to leave any identifying marks OFF. This most certainly applies to Keith Murray's work. I currently have some 20 or so pieces of researched and identified Murray that all have pattern numbers fully attributed to them - only 2 have an acid ecthed mark.

Now to the piece in question. Many factories used the bucket/beaker/tumbler form, so that is not something that can be used as a pointer to Murray specifically. In my opinion the pattern of cutting is not synonimous with any of the styles of cutting that can be readily associated with Keith Murray.

To me the pattern appears more likely to be by Webb & Corbett or Thomas Webb & Sons. However, I must stress that is an opinion based purely on gut instinct.

Frank is right that many pieces by Webb seem not to be marked, however this can be true of other factories too, for instance S&W and indeed Webb & Corbett to a lesser degree.

Unlike Frank, pretty well all Rembrandt Guild pieces that I have seen have been marked.

Nigel


Offline Frank

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Re: S&W Keith Murray?
« Reply #9 on: November 09, 2005, 08:53:03 PM »
Quote from: "nigel benson"
Rembrandt Guild pieces that I have seen have been marked.

Nigel



I wonder how many were original marks though! I do know that there was an effort being made to mark these as I was asked if I wanted mine marked by someone at Portobello market. I was very tempted as I was getting silly offers for it but I did resist and did eventually sell it too cheaply.
Frank A.
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