stickered & marked strathearn green dish any idea on age and pattern name

[jonchellycain]

Hi all
I was hoping somebody may be able to give me and idea on age for this strathearn dish, it has the leaping salmon impressed mark, and a black and white sticker with the leaping salmon STRAHEARN HAND MADE IN SCOTLAND. Also would there be a specific name for the pattern or shape.
The dish is green with beautiful bright colouring inside (seems a shame as its quite hidden) 18cms in diameter
I have checked on Franks sites but have so far been unable to come up with anything
many thanks in advance
michelle
http://i67.servimg.com/u/f67/14/37/17/66/100_4612.jpg
http://i67.servimg.com/u/f67/14/37/17/66/100_4613.jpg
http://i67.servimg.com/u/f67/14/37/17/66/100_4614.jpg

[Lustrousstone]

It's obviously a Vasart/Strathearn cross-over, shape 029, see http://www.glassmessages.com/index.php/topic,28052.0.html

[jonchellycain]

many thanks christine managed to find one from your info on Franks site as a B029, will do a bit more digging and see if i can narrow down a date. The sticker looks like it has a bit of age to it.
thanks again
michelle
http://ysartglass.com/Vascat/VasB021.htm

[jonchellycain]

doh.. didnt read me own link properly says at the top Strathearn from 1964 
michelle

[Frank]

 

[KevinH]

Hmmm! The date of the commencement of Strathearn still seems to be variable ...

From Frank's Ysart Glass page: Calendar of Ysart Glass ...

1964 December 26th - Vasart Glass Limited, Shore Road works closed. (Courier and Advertiser, December 1964) ...
1965 January 22nd - Strathearn Glass factory opened at Muthill Road, Crieff ...

But the Vasart / Strathearn catalogue pages indicate ...

Strathearn from 1964

Sorry to be a nuisance, Frank (and everybody else), but what date should we really be using for general references to the start of Strathearn? (*) And, do we have any dating info on when the Leaping Salmon impressed mark (as seen on Michelle's bowl) was first used?

(*) It's 3:30 am and I'm not asleep, so thought I'd throw in a bit of pedantry. Yes ... I know ... I often get lost myself on the 64/65 issue when talking about the paperweight side of things. Hah! It's almost as bad as the confusions over the date that Paul really started at Caithness, Wick - but I suppose some of us are now much happier with '62 on that one.

[Lustrousstone]

I would say you could date the start of Strathearn to April 1964, as that is when Wm Teacher became the major shareholder. Vasart had reached the brink of ruin after underpricing a major job for Downing St in 1963, or rather that job was the final straw. Without Teacher's help there would have been no new works; the old one would have fallen down.

[KevinH]

Having a new major shareholder is not the same as having a new company, or trading, name.

The financies related to the special lighting globes were certainly a serious problem for Vasart Ltd. But the demand for vastly increased numbers of squashed whiskey bottle novelty ashtrays (or nut trays) was probably the final catalyst for the change of company name as part of the demolition of the Shore works and the move to the new works at Crieff.

[Cathy B]

It's amazing that there was a demand for squashed whisky bottle ashtrays at all. 

It's all a bit like the Theseus' ship paradox. When was the company formally registered?

[Frank]

I suppose the answer is I could ask someone who worked there but probably does not know the business details.

Sooo... the company probably existed before the works started production in 1965, easily checked. So as far as the 'company' is concerned 1964 is correct, as far as the glass is concerned 1965 is correct. I think have verified the details in the past but grey cells are falling out along with the hair. But ultimately until Alasdair Gordon turned up, 1973, and changed the designs it is reasonable to assume 1965-73 for Vasart designs produced at Strathearn Glass probably with one or two popular designs continuing but in new colours. It is also likely that use of the leaping salmon seal was fairly early - however in order to make that work they had to increase the thickness of the glass. So just like the paperweights you will find an abstract period where glass made at Crieff is almost indistinguishable from that made at Shore Works. The 'almost' being that Shore Works used coal gas and Crieff propane. I would expect that it is possible to detect a difference as a result of this, how is another question entirely.

The above probably explains the ambiguity in dates - but heck, this is a continuation of the same designs with the same people and the same materials and to be honest I could not give a toss about it. Use '65-73 and you are almost certainly correct. If anyone disagrees tell them to call me with their theories  :hb1:

[Lustrousstone]

But the demand for vastly increased numbers of squashed whiskey bottle novelty ashtrays (or nut trays) was probably the final catalyst for the change of company name as part of the demolition of the Shore works and the move to the new works at Crieff.

It was that was the only reason Teacher's was interested. Demand for the squashed bottles was at 60,000 a year and the old works could only produce 120 a week. Its money was used to finance the works, which were completed by December 1964 and officially opened in February 1965, so we can assume it was up and running before then. Demand for squashed bottles grew so much that when Allied Breweries took over Teacher's in 1976, the Strathearn works couldn't meet it.

The Companies House records aren't online for that period.

[Frank]

From my Calendar of Ysart Glass ...

1964 December 26th - Vasart Glass Limited, Shore Road works closed. (Courier and Advertiser, December 1964) ...
1965 January 22nd - Strathearn Glass factory opened at Muthill Road, Crieff ...

Those dates are confirmed, someone did tell me that there was about a week where nothing was made during the move.

To remove ambiguity I will change the text on the catalogues to 1965 as after all, they relate to the glass not the company structure.