No-one likes general adverts, and ours hadn't been updated for ages, so we're having a clear-out and a change round to make the new ones useful to you. These new adverts bring in a small amount to help pay for the board and keep it free for you to use, so please do use them whenever you can, Let our links help you find great books on glass or a new piece for your collection. Thank you for supporting the Board.

Author Topic: Chinese Pate-de-Verre  (Read 2429 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Max

  • Global Moderator
  • Members
  • *
  • Posts: 3464
  • Gender: Female
Re: Chinese Pate-de-Verre
« Reply #10 on: May 10, 2010, 02:24:52 PM »
Wow Adam, that link was amazing!  There's NO WAY I would have the patience to make something like that.  Wowweeee!
I am not a man

Support the Glass Message Board by finding a book via book-seek.com


Offline steph

  • Members
  • **
  • Posts: 140
    • Stephs glass
Re: Chinese Pate-de-Verre
« Reply #11 on: May 10, 2010, 09:28:00 PM »
Thanks everyone, and Max I shall dream of that candle holder even if it is 'pate crystal'.  No chance of finding one of those in my local charity shop..... Seeing the process was wonderful, thanks AA.

Support the Glass Message Board by finding glass through glass-seek.com


jazimmons

  • Guest
Re: Chinese Pate-de-Verre
« Reply #12 on: May 10, 2010, 10:02:43 PM »
 :cry: Hey Peeps! Have tried and tried to produce Pate de verre, so many times and using so many colouarnts and quite how ANYBODY can achieve it successfully, still baffles! The modern-day compounds undoubtedly use a Borosillicate, to bind the ingredients (whatever they may be?) and unlike the lost-wax making process, metal molds are re-used. This LABOURIOUS technique, requires more than just skill or a working understanding of "glass!"   I think it best left alone and a part of our history! Far better perhaps, to develop NEW working mediums/methods, rather than to copy or to ape The Masters, such as Gabriel Argy Rousseau and others... Unless of course we are talking about cire-perdue, which we all of us know is a piece of cake to master!   lol :spls: Jazz

Support the Glass Message Board by finding a book via book-seek.com


Offline Mosquito

  • Members
  • **
  • Posts: 1021
  • Gender: Male
    • 中国 (China)
    • Jobling Art Glass
Re: Chinese Pate-de-Verre
« Reply #13 on: May 11, 2010, 08:45:50 AM »
and unlike the lost-wax making process, metal molds are re-used.

I've never heard of metal moulds being used for pâte-de-verre, they would be costly & impractical. For large production runs of the same pattern a positive model is made - in China this was made from solid clay for simple shapes, while more complex forms were built up with clay over a metal armature. A negative elastomer mould is taken from this which is then used to cast numerous identical wax positives. These are hand finished/ detailed before being used in the lost-wax process to make the final plaster moulds. This way numerous examples of the same pattern can be made while keeping the fine definition of the lost wax process.

Btw, can we clear up the distinction between pâte-de-verre and pâte-de-cristal? I often see these terms being used interchangeably & i'm not 100% sure of the difference. My understanding at present is that pâte-de-verre uses powders with a binder, whereas pâte-de-cristal may be cast using larger pieces of crushed glass without a binder leading to less control of the distribution of colours but resulting in a clearer finished product. Most of the Chinese production is made this way, as I believe is Daum's current output.

The pate de cristal technique is also shown on the Daum site, but the website is so slow & annoying with excessive use of flash that your patience may run out before you find it.

Support the Glass Message Board by finding glass through glass-seek.com


Offline Max

  • Global Moderator
  • Members
  • *
  • Posts: 3464
  • Gender: Female
Re: Chinese Pate-de-Verre
« Reply #14 on: May 11, 2010, 09:57:26 AM »
Quote
Thanks everyone, and Max I shall dream of that candle holder even if it is 'pate crystal'.

I can see why you'd think that Steph, but it's not actually a candle holder, it's an artistic design based on ceremonial usage I believe, which is why the indented part resembles a temple.  Also, it'd be jolly BIG as a candle holder!  Mind you, at least with all that weight it wouldn't be in danger of falling over! lol  ;) :) :) :)
I am not a man

Support the Glass Message Board by finding a book via book-seek.com


Offline Mosquito

  • Members
  • **
  • Posts: 1021
  • Gender: Male
    • 中国 (China)
    • Jobling Art Glass
Re: Chinese Pate-de-Verre
« Reply #15 on: May 11, 2010, 10:48:28 AM »
Max, surely the indented part on your piece is based on a bronze tripod censer rather than a temple? Looking at it I'd think it would be intended to be displayed with the broadest surface uppermost so the censer appears to float in the glass, otherwise it just looks upside-down to me.

These tripod footed vessels are a common design in Liu-Li, as are Cong and Gu type vases.  

Support the Glass Message Board by finding glass through glass-seek.com


Offline Max

  • Global Moderator
  • Members
  • *
  • Posts: 3464
  • Gender: Female
Re: Chinese Pate-de-Verre
« Reply #16 on: May 11, 2010, 12:46:47 PM »
Yep, could be a censer - strangely I was looking up thuribles and censers for my artwork just a couple of days ago.  I found a photo of this particular piece on the Liuligongfang website once and it was with the hole upwards I believe.  I don't have it displayed like that though as I like to see the 'step' on the sides better.  :)

I've got another piece of Liuligongfang, but it's nowhere near as spectacular as Without Boundaries.

I am not a man

Support the Glass Message Board by finding a book via book-seek.com


Offline steph

  • Members
  • **
  • Posts: 140
    • Stephs glass
Re: Chinese Pate-de-Verre
« Reply #17 on: May 11, 2010, 02:10:45 PM »
 Thanks Max... ooop's you can see how my interest has yet to be underpinned by any real knowledge...however I'm just about to post  a pic of a recent buy that proves, to me at least, that the brain and eye are starting to work in tandem.... and I've just bought a big lump of Whitefriars that was labled Bohemian.  But information gleaned from GMB had taught me otherwise....  so much expertise ....  I'm  :-[ that I've collected so much glass but so little knowledge..... time to rectify situation.  I'm thinking I must evaluate what I have and decide to specialise...but being magpie'ish is so much fun!   

Support the Glass Message Board by finding glass through glass-seek.com


Offline Max

  • Global Moderator
  • Members
  • *
  • Posts: 3464
  • Gender: Female
Re: Chinese Pate-de-Verre
« Reply #18 on: May 11, 2010, 03:04:15 PM »
Quote
I'm  Embarrassed that I've collected so much glass but so little knowledge..... time to rectify situation.

Don't be  :-[  Everyone here started off exactly the same way.  We've all got a whole heap of glass mistakes and learning curves.  It's natural...so don't worry!   :thup:
I am not a man

Support the Glass Message Board by finding a book via book-seek.com


 

SMF spam blocked by CleanTalk
Look for glass on
ebay.co.uk
Visit the Glass Encyclopedia
link to glass encyclopedia
Look for glass on
ebay.com (us)
Visit the Online Glass Museum
link to glass museum


This website is provided by Angela Bowey, PO Box 113, Paihia 0247, New Zealand