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Author Topic: RD confusion  (Read 175 times)

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Offline brucebanner

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RD confusion
« on: July 26, 2016, 05:50:17 PM »
I think this vase has been on here before but i have now found a plate with a very similar pattern, the plate has a lozenge which is totally unreadable and i can not find the vase on here, the  lozenge in  the base of the vase looks like the month m and year a T 1867 and the date is 2 something, the only one i can find with this date is a Molineux and Webb biscuit barrel, any thought's ?

Regards Chris.
Chris Parry

Offline agincourt17

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Re: RD confusion
« Reply #1 on: July 26, 2016, 06:47:55 PM »
Chris, this 'linked ring' decoration  is from Angus & Greener's RD 209161, registered 26 June 1867 - Parcel 8. The design was for the decorative pattern rather than the shape.

 I have pics on the GMB RD database of the celery in part-frosted clear, pale blue, yellow-green uranium and purple marbled,  in the vicinity of
http://www.yobunny.org.uk/glassgallery/displayimage.php?pos=-21178
and there are pics of lots of other shapes including several different creamers, a pedestal sugar, round plate, oval dish, and covered butter.
 
Fred.

Offline brucebanner

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Re: RD confusion
« Reply #2 on: July 26, 2016, 06:54:05 PM »
Thank you Fred, i have spent most of the afternoon searching.
Chris Parry

Offline Paul S.

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Re: RD confusion
« Reply #3 on: July 26, 2016, 07:03:11 PM »
assume from your comments Fred that we already have the Kew image on the Board??          Perhaps I've posted some time in the past and forgotten.               Must admit the blue and uranium celeries are very desirable.

Offline brucebanner

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Re: RD confusion
« Reply #4 on: July 26, 2016, 07:08:04 PM »
I know off topic but i found this today, on the database you have one with no lid and the detail is lovely. RD 254027.
Chris Parry

Offline Paul S.

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Re: RD confusion
« Reply #5 on: July 26, 2016, 08:15:03 PM »
the 'linked ring' pattern, as a style of decoration on Rd. 209161 looks to have been dear to A. & G's. heart  -  it occurs again on Rd Nos. 214357 and 214358 both of which were Registered on 26th November the same year.       These November Registrations are both identically shaped open sugars, and although my pix from Kew are such that I can't see the stem of 214357, I understand that the difference between the two (since there obviously must be a difference) is in the stem shape - put me right if I'm wrong please - but otherwise 214357/58 are identical in design.               
Despite having three separate Registrations, we really only have two designs here  -  209161 with the plain linked ovals and no other embellishment  -  and the single design of linked ovals plus large 'tears' which is a pattern showing identically on 214357/58.
At a quick glance you could be forgiven for thinking all three were the same pattern, but of course we know that's not the case.

Not a problem then, you say.................   however, I'm a little confused regarding the relationship between the plate showing in the very first picture here which Fred has confirmed as 209161, and the original factory photo for this Registration from which it appears to differ as follows  .........
The plate from Chris shows large tears - on the base - below the linked ovals, thus suggesting that it refers to 214357/58 and not Rd. 209161 which lacks this extra embellishment.

Sorry to be Mr. Thicky............    have I lost the plot somewhere?             Meant to say  -  if we need any of the Kew images to substantiate or clarify any of the above, let me know.

Would agree the hexagonal jar is attractive  -  George Davidson and Registered on 1st May 1895 -  sorry, don't presently have the Kew image, but will try and get tomorrow.


Offline Paul S.

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Re: RD confusion
« Reply #6 on: July 27, 2016, 07:55:52 AM »
probably trying to read too much into these things at times.........    there's no doubt that both designs are closer in pattern that we'd like and not too difficult to be confused - they need studying carefully to clarifying the difference.                  Perhaps easier to differentiate on shapes such as plates, but less so on celeries for example, where part of the design is omitted.               That part of the design round the border does differ too, so suggest you forget my words from last evening, and think I now can tell the two apart, and Fred is correct with his comments regarding the plate from Chris.
Have shown couple of plates which believe show the two distinct designs............    regret can't re-photograph them as long since given away, but hoping against hope that each had legible lozenges which was how I separated them at the time.             Shout if you don't agree.

Meant to say............    is it possible for someone to put up pix showing clearly the difference between 214357 and 214357 - apparently it's to do with a variation in shape of stem or foot I think - seems my Kew pix aren't good enough help me. 

Offline agincourt17

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Re: RD confusion
« Reply #7 on: July 27, 2016, 08:45:56 AM »
Chris, thank you for the photos of the  Davidson RD 254027 jar.

Paul, I don't seem to have the design representation for RD 209161 (which I presume is one of their sepia photos). Thank you for showing the RD 214357-358 plate alongside the RD 209161 plate - a  nice comparison.

As to the Angus & Greener RDs 214357 and 214358 of 26 November 1867 - Parcel 9,  I see that Jenny Thompson describes them as "Sugar basin foot and sugar basin". The only photos that I have are of a comport with the appropriate registry date lozenge, but unfortunately the photos (which are not of particularly good quality) don't show any detail of the stem, though they do show some of the detail of the foot.

Fred.

Offline Paul S.

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Re: RD confusion
« Reply #8 on: July 27, 2016, 02:17:19 PM »
quote............   " is it possible for someone to put up pix showing clearly the difference between 214357 and 214357".          What a muppet - my apologies, it should of course have read 214357 and 214358.              thanks for the comments Fred - I'll come back to this one a little later.

Meantime - here is the National Archives image of the hexagonal lidded jar - Davidson's Registration 254027 - the original design based on a plate rather than the jar.      Davidson not really my thing, so no idea if this was one of those multiple pieces from a large 'suite' or not  -  Davidson quite keen I believe on suites.            Anyone else have pieces with this design?

Perhaps we can tidy this thread up a little??           the subject heading might be made more useful, and this Davidson reference might be hived off to stand alone perhaps?

Offline agincourt17

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Re: RD confusion
« Reply #9 on: July 27, 2016, 03:13:49 PM »
Thank you for showing the Davidson RD 254027 design representation, Paul.

This is the basic design behind the Davidson 1896 suite (a.k.a. "Somerset" by American collectors).
 
There are quite a lot of different shapes known in this pattern, and they can be found in clear, blue pearline, yellow pearline and pink 'Rosalin' glass.

A selection is shown on the GMB RD database at http://www.yobunny.org.uk/glassgallery/displayimage.php?pos=-16310 and sequence, and on the GMB Davidson Pattern Numbers database at http://www.yobunny.org.uk/glassgallery/displayimage.php?pos=-22122 and sequence.

Fred.

 

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