Topic: ZBS alexandrite vase and ashtray -- Klinger c. 1965?

[Anik R]

Hello!

I just got this today...  a wonderful Železnobrodské Sklo alexandrite vase (19,5cm tall) and lovely little alexandrite ashtray -- both with "Bohemia Glass ZBS Made in Czechoslovakia" labels. 

Now my question:  Were they designed by Miloslav Klinger?  And are they c. 1965? 

THANK YOU! 

P.S. I'm so pleased with this purchase!  I find the color and shape of both pieces charming 

[astrid]

I like Zelezny Brod as well, have several pieces by now. I can't answer all of you questions (maybe our Czech experts can add a bit more to the discussion), but if I may, I'll make a few observations.

The label is used for Zelezny Brod between 1960 and 1980, have you used a source to pin this work down more exactly to 1965? If so, I'm interested to know the source.

The other thing is, while Miloslav Klinger is the safer assumption as he designed a lot of the Zelezny Brod pieces, the top of your vase isn't in the (later?) Klinger style of pulled out pointy bits (sorry, don't know the exact terminology), but it rather resembles the narrow round rim as present in 2 different pieces in this earlier thread:

http://www.glassmessages.com/index.php/topic,33749.0.html

I speculatively wonder if this particular rim could point to Frantisek Zemek as a designer, rather than Miloslav Klinger. Of course, as noted in the earlier thread, Klinger could easily have been inspired by certain aspects of Zemek's work. Anyway, if it is Zemek, the design itself should be pre-1960. And if it is Klinger, it could point to being an early design as the rim is plain round rather than pointy.

Sorry if this all sounds rather speculative, I'm still learning my way around Zelezny brod, and I'd love to know more telltale signs to separate the Klinger pieces from the Zemek pieces (or even a different designer that hasn't been contemplated yet).

Astrid

[Anik R]

Hello Astrid!  Thank you so much for your reply 

The label is used for Zelezny Brod between 1960 and 1980, have you used a source to pin this work down more exactly to 1965? If so, I'm interested to know the source.

No, no reliable source, only ebay  :pb:  (OK, now I feel stupid  :spls:)

As for my Klinger attribution, I thought my vase was very similar to the one on page 48 of Mark Hill's "Hi Sklo Lo Sklo" -- except that mine has got 'pulled' bits or dimples near the bottom.

I wouldn't be surprised if I'm completely wrong -- I've yet to be completely right    That's why I greatly apprecaite your input.

All the best!
Anik

[Jindra8526]

ŽBS trase mark:
ŽELEZNOBRODSKÉ SKLO a.s., Průmyslová 702, Železný Brod, 46822, Česká republika
Valid: 19.05.1995 - 17.10.2005 

ŽELEZNOBRODSKÉ SKLO, státní podnik, Železný Brod, Československo
Valid: 01.02.1990 - 19.05.1995 

Jablonecká bižuterie, státní podnik, Jablonec nad Nisou, Československo
Valid:: 01.07.1988 - 01.02.1990 

Železnobrodské sklo, koncernový podnik, Železný Brod, Československo
Valid: 17.01.1979 - 01.07.1988 

Železnobrodské sklo, národní podnik, Těpeřská čp. 53, Železný Brod, okres Jablonec n. N., Československo
Valid: 05.02.1963 - 17.01.1979 


So first time this mark appeared in 1963, used continuously for many years.

Since 1992 at label instead of "Made in Czechoslovakia" appears "Made in Czech republic"


Jindrich
www.webareal.cz/ceskoslovenskesklo

[astrid]

I checked Mark Hill's book when I came home and apparently one of the small round rim vases ZBS is also attributed to Klinger, so it's probably safest to assume this one also is by him.

[Jindra8526]

I am tending to agree with you, Anik

More about Klinger:
http://picasaweb.google.cz/Jindra8526/MiloslavKlinger198212?authkey=Gv1sRgCOebmvjKw9myCA#

Jindrich
www.webareal.cz/ceskoslovenskesklo

[Anik R]

Thank you, Jindrich...  your knowledge and passion for Czech glass amazes me!

[MarkHill]

Hello,
Like Josef Hospodka's lobed and freeblown designs for Chribska, most of this 'family' of designs at ZBS were produced by Klinger. Josef Crvcek is also a name that crops up related to them, but Jindrich tells me that he was a master blower there and it's difficult to say. I wouldn't go into such depths as regards the pulled rim in this instance even though at least one of Zemek's designs was (and is) produced by ZBS. Until other research material is found, it's safe to assume that most pieces like this were designed by Klinger.
The important thing to remember is that many of the designs from this 'family' were made for many years - and are still being made in many instances. A walk around Prague's Old Town, as I was lucky enough to enjoy last weekend, shows that. Many shop sell these designs, most of them in more vibrant or zingy colours. So whilst it's safe to say it's by Klinger, it's not really safe to say these were pieces made in the 60s or even the 70s....the problem comes when the labels have been removed. Then you have to rely on colours used.
However, as Graham Cooley said in an interview with Jeanette Hayhurst in the Glass Associations 'Glass Cone' publication, if it's a great design and you like it, does it really matter when it was made?
Mark

[Anik R]

Hello Mark!

Thank you (once again) for the input  .

Since both my pieces have got a "Made in Czechoslovakia" label, it's safe to say they were both produced between 1960s and 1980s (upto 1992) -- maybe my specific '1965' date is a little wishful (but still possible  -- a girl can dream).

Although it's always nice to get a specific attribution and date, I agree when you say "if it's a great design and you like it, does it really matter when it was made?" -- In the end it's of little significance as I think both my pieces are lovely and they're both 'keepers'.  I've got a huge soft spot for Czech glass  .

All the best!  And my gratitude to all who posted a reply...

Anik

[Jindra8526]

Dear friends,
I suppose that for the most of our questions we can get easy answer from Dr. Novy from Glass museum in Jablonec. I will meet him on 15th July and I will try to get more details, catalogues and infos about ZBS.

Unfortuately I cannot cover all at once becouse of time. I have finished Vizner's Pressed Glass CD, I am finalising much bigger Vizner's Skrdlovice DVD (it will cover all pieces designed by this famous man for Skrdlovice), next week Mr. Vizner hopefully will confirm all and I will be able to start distribution. Than finaly I will be able to focus to different authors. 

Mark, please take a look at: www.princglass.com/katalog_en.aspx?IDKategorie=2
I am afraid that one from your purchases had been born here.... 

Jindrich
www.webareal.cz/ceskoslovensklesklo